On November 1, 1964--two days after consuming LSD together--Myron Stolaroff, Humphry Osmond, and Al Hubbard captured the following discussion on a reel-to-reel recorder. The recording includes a short commont from Willis Harman, and Hubbard's wife Rita joins them briefly toward the end of the conversation. This may be one of only a few extant recordings featuring Al "Captain Trips" Hubbard, who passed away in 1982.

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The conversation of these psychedelic pioneers focuses primarily on the challenges that surround group dynamics. They touch on a number of interpersonal relationship issues, dealing at some length with situations related to tensions between Osmond and Hubbard. Osmond asks Hubbard to explain why he seems to have been unwilling for them to drop acid together for a number of years, and comments on Hubbard's character: "You're a killer who understands the rules of the game, and therefore doesn't have to kill very often--like an absolutely first-rate game warden. A hunter who doesn't, in fact, go around slaughtering all of the animals just for fun. He merely shoots animals if they charge at him wild, if they have rabies, or if they're in pain." Valuable insights and hard-won pearls of wisdom regarding the challenges facing those who wish to work with psychedelics in groups are offered up by each speaker. The limitations of language for expressing altered mind states are discussed, and Osmond opines that describing psychedelic experiences is best done by poets.

At times, in particular for listeners who are not familiar with the "cast of characters"--researchers and board members associated with the International Foundation for Advanced Study (IFAS) who are only mentioned by their first names (Duncan Blewitt, Charles Savage, Abram Hoffer, and others)--it can be hard to follow the dialogue. And the conversation--peppered with the strong opinions and colorful language of Hubbard and Osmond--borders on gossipy at times. Timothy Leary is criticized, for example, due to his "starting a new religion" approach.

An interesting aside is presented regarding a prospective IFAS funder named Barksdale, who--as it turns out--had been financing the production of black-market LSD. Hubbard describes this as the "green LSD", which was characterized as a shoddy/impure street product in correspondence between Osmond and Stolaroff.

Erowid Center is pleased to make this first recording from the Stolaroff Collection available to the public.1 Recordings will also be hosted at Lorenzo Hagerty's Psychedelic Salon, where some transcribed quotations from this selection can be found. For Erowid, knowing that Stolaroff was instrumental in the development of Ampex's reel-to-reel recording technology has added a poignant quality to the restoration and dissemination of audio from reels in the Stolaroff Collection. In the future, more recordings from this collection will be hosted online at Erowid; donations to help cover the cost of digitizing tapes can be made at: Erowid.org/donations/project_stolaroff.php