From: Lamont Granquist
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: LSD The facts!
Date: 31 Aug 1992 02:43:19 GMT

THE FACTS.

I don't have this thing referenced, I don't have anywhere near the time...

LSD does not cause any chronic physiological or neurological damage. period.

LSD does not produce a psychotic state.  LSD is not a psychotomimetic
drug in the literal use of the word.  I've experienced true drug psychosis
before, and LSD just ain't close...

LSD may produce chronic visual "tracers" -- probably as a result of receptor
changes in the sensory pathways of the brain.  This is not damage.  Some
people have these naturally, particularly in the morning.  I've gotten
them from prescription drugs, which caused this and enhanced my vision at
the same time (QED, I'm not complaining...).

LSD may cause mild "flashbacks" (IMHO a misuse of the word) which is really
just state-dependent learning.  Users sometimes can get themselves into a
slightly shifted perspective when a stimulus is similar to one experienced
while on LSD, or if one is familiar enough with the LSD state they can
sometimes create this mild perspective shift themself.

LSD may produce thick chronic visual "tracers" which interfere with vision.
This is very rare, and is not "damage" per se since it is reversible with
drug therapy (probably neuroleptics, but I'm not positive).  Most users if
they report anything report the benign type.

LSD may produce a sydrome resembling Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  This
is due to a massively bad trip...  Here is where you get your honest-to-god
flashbacks from.  Its also not very common.

LSD may produce a schizophrenic break in someone already suscpetible to
schizophrenia, again due to the psychological trauma of an extraordinarly
bad trip.  This, however, is a case of "if it didn't happen on LSD, it 
would've happened at some point".

The frequency of the above three chronic effects is less than 2:1000 which
is about the same as the *normal* frequency of schizophrenia in the 
population.  Conclusion:  normal people that drop LSD remain normal people,
people with schizophrenic tendencies or other psychological disorders get
more fucked up.  And I bet the guy who was distributing that pamphlet on the
evils of LSD probably had a schizophrenic break which is why he was so
damn concerned with it changing your personality...

Article 2302 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave,alt.drugs
From: (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: LSD The facts!
References: <1992Aug27.223755.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:17:09 GMT
Lines: 115
Xref: agate alt.rave:2302 alt.drugs:37302

In <1992Aug27.223755.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edd709psft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes:

Any chance you can straighten this guy out on a few things?

>    - LSD causes distortions in thinking and feeling and its chemical 
>      structure causes hallucinations and delusions and changes, permanently
>      the chemistry of the brain.

There is no conclusive evidence of such a thing, no matter what he may
feel.  It's more likely he's imprinted a "permanent" psychological change
to his brain.

>    - dizziness, weaknesses, tremors, nausea and parathesis are prominent
>      bodily symptoms

Not necessarily by any stretch.  Not to mention, you could claim the same
symptoms for alcohol and any of a dozen other drugs.

>    - psychological aspects include paranoia, irreversible personality
>      changes, depression after and during use can bring on suicidal thoughts
>      to escape traumatic feelings and emotions

Only if you're unstable, and in a frightening environment.  A user has
a duty to his/herself to stay where they know they can handle the setting.
If your mindset is positive and your setting is safe (to you) then you
can avoid these problems easily.

>    - physical damages include depletion of brain cells thus brain damage,
>      chromosomal mutations and damages to the nervous system

This is utter bullshit.  None of these effects have been shown significantly.
The most widely quoted study "demonstrating" chromosomal damage used aspirin
and caffiene as controls, and they produced MORE damage than the LSD.
Not to mention, it studies the effects of these drugs on cells in Petri
dishes at incredible concentrations, which really has little bearing on the
state your body is in when using them.

>    - LSD is used in experimentation to produce a state of hyper arousal
>      of the central nervous system. It is used to induce psychotic 
>      reactions and other such feelings akin to psychosis and madness

This is also BS, as spouted by the medical establishment of the 60's.
The reason they got psychotic results is because they didn't pay any
attention to the importance of set and setting.

>    - LSD is tastless, odourless and invisible thus you can never tell if
>      it actually is a trip you are getting, or something stronger like PCP

This is a good argument against all forms of acid except blotter.  I don't
think you can get enough PCP on a blotter square to mess you up.

>    - PCP (Angel Dust) produces a form of sensory isolation that is stronger
>      than LSD; disorientation, distortion of body image, complete numbness,
>      sweating, rapid heart rate and hyper tension. A slight overdose can 
>      shut down the central nervous system and lead to death.

PCP is an animal tranquilizer.  I don't recommend it either.

>...I have tried to research and put onto paper facts about LSD usage and 
>related hallucinogenic drugs. I have provided you with only medical facts
>excluding medical opinion,

This is false.  The "facts" cited are not, and the info about "psycotic
reactions" is opinion.  There is a small percentage of the population that
is susceptable to psychotic reactions to LSD, but if one is not stupid
in wantonly abusing the drug the vast majority of times it's safe.  (You
could get drunk and fall off a high stair or get run over by a car too
now).

>Once you reach your ultimate experience, your personality will change 
>dramatically and there is nothing you can do to change what you encountered.

1) I have yet to see such a permanent radical phenomenon in anyone I've
known to take LSD.
2) your personality changes some every day.  The point is?

>You will never know what you are buying, it may be labelled a trip but you
>don't know what it really is, where it comes from, who made it or what is in
>it.

This is the only valid point he makes.  It's VERY important not to rely on
shady strangers for things like this.

>	Finally, you think its or 'just a trip', be careful this is the biggest
>distortion of the drug. Ask anyone outside the drug culture, perhaps a G.P.
>he will advise you to stay away from those drugs, not because he is
>exaggerating, but because they know the facts, their views about the drug
>aren't distorted."

"Anyone outside the drug culture" is probably parroting the same tired
mistaken ideas (like chromosomal damage) that have been being used to try
to scare people off "the drug" since the 60's.  Their views ARE distorted
because they can't seem to think critically about the fact that the studies
show pretty well that under controlled (but not sterile) conditions, LSD
is one of the safest drugs you can take.

>Even though a lot of you out there may know most of these facts I thought
>I'd post it anyway. I'd appreciate any comments because I think it's 
>important for the ravers of the world to atleast come to terms with what
>they are doing.

I don't recommend any illegal drug--it will likely get you arrested.

But the hyperbolic rationalizations of the establishment about what
horrible things drugs will do to you are exactly that--exaggerated
rationalizations.  It sounds like this guy had a bad trip and went
into anti-drug mode because he scared himself shitless.  This can
happen, but is unlikely IF YOU ARE CAREFUL about sources, set, and
setting.  If anyone in alt.rave cares, I'm sure someone can manage to
post the LSD FAQ from alt.drugs here.  It is considerably more factual
and cites specific studies (if I recall correctly) supporting it's
facts.
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University
                                   Haazavaa?


Article 2341 of alt.rave:
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Path: agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!hoptoad!dante!mason
From: mason@dante.uucp (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: LSD The facts!
Message-ID: <1992Aug27.205603.20364@dante.uucp>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 20:56:03 GMT
References: <1992Aug27.223755.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: Charnel House
Lines: 160

edd709psft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
: Evidently there is a freaked out raver wandering around Melbourne who has
: fried his brains from too much drug use (Love Doctor I THINK his name is!)
: and has produced a three page document detailing the hazards of LSD usage.
: He has been going around to all the raves distributing the letter on ravers
: car windscreens.

Okay, you should probably gather information and put out an answering sheet.
If you do that you should be quite serious about it and matter-of-fact,
since you probably want people to take yours as seriously (or more so)
as the original.

: "Provided in these pages is detailed information on LSD usage and its effects
: so as to provide the user with an understanding of the drug and facts about
: it. Please read it carefully as it will provide information for you safety.
: NoteL  This has not been written by some government organisation or the 
: drug offensive (BIG ANTI DRUG DEAL IN AUSTRALIA), but I am one of you (close
: to the scene) who has finally realised the gravity of such drug use and my 
: realisation and concern has lead me to research which has uncovered facts
: that may make you think...

[note that his 'research' looks as though it consisted of reading some
PDFA propaganda from the U.S.!]

:     - usual doses of LSD in humans are approx. 1-2 micrograms per kg,
:       to produce a mental and emotional experience, even though most
:       trips contain 15-90 micrograms of acid; thus making it one of the 
:       most potent pharmacological agents known to mankind.

What the hell is a 'usual' dose?  Does he mean the amount in order to
produce an effect?

:     - LSD causes distortions in thinking and feeling and its chemical 
:       structure causes hallucinations and delusions and changes, permanently
:       the chemistry of the brain.

Nice of him to provide proof in the form of reliable sources, isn't it?
LSD causes no permanent changes in brain chemistry.  No reputable studies
have demonstrated anything of the sort.

:     - dizziness, weaknesses, tremors, nausea and parathesis are prominent
:       bodily symptoms

If he thinks so, he probably has not been doing LSD.  It causes some
occasional dizziness (less than heavy drinking); some nausea if you
eat something you shouldn't while doing it; the others aren't usual
symptoms.

:     - bluring of vision, distortions of perspective, organised visual 
:       illusions, less discriminent hearing and a change in the sense of time
:       are common abnormalities

Abnormalities?  No, those are common effects of taking it.  If he doesn't
like it, what the hell's he doing trying the drug?

:     - LSD produces central stimulation, dilated pupils, increased heart beat,
:       mild elevation of blood pressures and alertness

Not always; the physical effects are extremely variable, and depend pretty
much entirely on what you're doing at the time.  LSD-25 itself does not
produce any heart rate increase, blood pressure elevation, or anything else
of the short.

:     - psychological aspects include paranoia, irreversible personality
:       changes, depression after and during use can bring on suicidal thoughts
:       to escape traumatic feelings and emotions

Raise your hands if you've ever known anyone or even heard of anyone
(besides Art Linkletter's daughter ;-) committing suicide while tripping
or soon thereafter.  Right.  Doing any drug a lot can cause personality
changes.  Alcoholics are not pleasant people, for instance.  Doing almost
any drug in moderation, on the other hand, is generally safe.

:     - physical damages include depletion of brain cells thus brain damage,
:       chromosomal mutations and damages to the nervous system

Well, now we hit the fiction section.  Physical damages due to LSD
use include: none.  No reliable studies of LSD have ever produced
proof of any physical changes as a result of its use.  The old 'damage
to chromosomes' myth is a popular one among the ignorant, and is
based on an old, severely-flawed study which has since been discounted
(sorry I don't have the sources handy).

:     - LSD is used in experimentation to produce a state of hyper arousal
:       of the central nervous system. It is used to induce psychotic 
:       reactions and other such feelings akin to psychosis and madness

LSD is not used in experimentation, because it's a schedule I drug and
thus unavailable for scientific experimentation.  It was used in
psychiatric studies to temporarily *reverse* psychosis, and showed
great promise in treatment of schizophrenia before the government in
its (not-)wisdom took away the opportunity to study it further.  Se
_Acid Dreams_ for more information on this.

:     - LSD is tastless, odourless and invisible thus you can never tell if
:       it actually is a trip you are getting, or something stronger like PCP

Finally something intelligent, although it should be noted that LSD on
blotter tabs apparently cannot be contaminated with anything in a
sufficient quantity to cause any noticeable damage.  Because LSD is so
powerful in small quantities (as he pointed out earlier), it is a
relatively safe drug to buy as compared to many others.

: ...I have tried to research and put onto paper facts about LSD usage and 
: related hallucinogenic drugs. I have provided you with only medical facts
: excluding medical opinion, thoughts and personal experiences;

He may have tried to put onto paper facts, but he mainly failed.  He
put down unsubstantiated myths and parroted propaganda.  If he had
facts, he would probably have cited sources.

: But I will say this, you are dealing with one of the most powerful drugs in
: the world, and it is being taken as 'if it was candy'.

That point might actually be worth discussing, rather than using tired
old scare tactics and falsehoods.  Anything taken as if it were candy
could lead to trouble.  He might as well be talking about alcohol in
the above paragraph.

: Once you reach your ultimate experience, your personality will change 
: dramatically and there is nothing you can do to change what you encountered.
: You will go through serious difficulties adjusting and returning to the 
: 'real world' because your experience is so real that people will think that
: you are going crazy. It is called a mind altering drug because the experience
: alters the entire personality and it is irreversible, the experience cannot
: be changed or reversed ever.

Yeah, right.  I used it a fair amount in college, and he's talking out
his asshole.  The experience is real, moron; anything you 'experience'
is 'real.'  All experiences alter your personality.  Why is that
necessarily bad?  There are no difficulties adjusting and returning to
the real world if you had any grasp of it in the first place.  If you
didn't then you shouldn't be using drugs like LSD until you can manage it.

: You will never know what you are buying, it may be labelled a trip but you
: don't know what it really is, where it comes from, who made it or what is in
: it.

Obviously, though I wouldn't recommend anyone buy illegal drugs because
it's a good way to get busted these days (I wouldn't post something in
public if I still did them), you shouldn't take anything that hasn't
been 'play-tested' by someone reliable.

: Even though a lot of you out there may know most of these facts I thought
: I'd post it anyway. I'd appreciate any comments because I think it's 
: important for the ravers of the world to atleast come to terms with what
: they are doing. (LSD and Ecstacy taking ravers that is - some people just
: like the music!)

Hopefully they'll come to terms by reading something reliable, instead
of taking as gospel a bunch of nonsense someone put on their car.  Go
out and read _Acid Dreams_ or _Storming Heaven_ or _LSD: My Problem
Child_ and get real facts with sources to back them up.


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