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A Report on 6-Carbon Tryptamines
by ZFC
Citation:   ZFC. "A Report on 6-Carbon Tryptamines: An Experience with 4-HO-DPT & 4-AcO-DALT (exp101510)". Nov 10, 2015.

  oral 4-HO-DPT
    insufflated 4-HO-DPT
    oral Rhodiola rosea
The following report is based on something I originally wrote on bluelight:

Abstract (based on 4-HO-DPT):
50 mg insufflated gave a nice strong and solid buzz for 2 to 3 hours.
50 mg orally was very very very mild or placebo (never more than a +1 achieved).

But 158 mg **orally** (expected to be slightly stronger than 50 mg insufflated) resulted in a completely unexpected and total ego-loss, full-blown DMT hyperspace in CEVs, and overwhelming OEVs making orientation difficult. It was definitely stronger than 750 g of LSD squeezed into 4 to 5 hours. I was absolutely not in the right setting at the time and this could have turned horribly wrong. Just be aware of it.

Somewhere in Tihkal, Sasha hypothesizes a rule of thumb regarding the number of amine carbons / activity ratio. He believes that below 2 (e.g. DMT), MAOs hinder oral activity, and above 6, activity also decreases via another mechanism (probably simply because the molecule gets too long). The sweet spot is in between.
In early 2012, I decided to start researching this 6-carbon limit case, in particular for 4-substituted indolols and acetate ester thereof.

As for many, my research is highly censored by my Legislator, and although I am aware of the fact that civil disobedience can be (and has been) a powerful tool for human rights in general and scientific progress in particular, I have made the choice to go by the rules, no matter how nonsensical. This, market availability, and personal intuition led me to assay 4-AcO-DALT and 4-HO-DPT multiple times.

I had been curious about the allyl functional group in psychedelics ever since a ++++ experience on 5-MeO-DALT in 2010 (legal at the time). Yes, a +4 on 5-MeO-DALT, but a higher dose, I do not remember the exact dosage and tolerance was involved. Near the end of the new online entry for 5-MeO-DALT, Sasha makes the following interesting remark:

Another direction possible for modifying the structure would be to relocate the oxygen in indole ring over to the 4- position. 4-Methoxytryptamine is commercially available, and it should be directly substitutable for the 5-methoxytryptamine used in this synthetic process giving rise to 4-MeO-DALT. Yet further out, what about starting the 4-benzyloxytryptamine and walking the same path? The product could be easily stripped of the benzyl ether by the usual catalytic hydrogenation, giving rise to the diallyl analogue of psilocin, 4-HO-DALT. I would wager a ten dollar bet that the acetate ester of this material, 4-AcO-DALT would be in the brain within minutes of swallowing the pill.

Finally, long before AL-LAD became available on the market, I had been fascinated with this allyl-substituted lysergamide, compound #1 in Tihkal. This was the intuitive rationale behind my wish to try 4-AcO-DALT. As for 4-HO-DPT, I had always wanted to try an indol-4-ol (not ester, i.e. psilocin analog), and knew DPT by reputation (I have never tried it though, and am unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future).

It took some time to find a proper 4-AcO-DALT dosage. Eventually, somewhere in between 80 and 90 mg was established to be a reasonably strong-ish dose, and a nice, albeit disappointing buzz a day after 1 mg of 25i-NBOME (legal at the time, and wrongly assumed to be safer than it really is). This assay involved 3 subjects. More disappointing assays were done within 3 weeks in the 50 to 70 mg range, occasionally boosted by some 5-MeO-MiPT (legal at the time, and possibly degraded) and 500 g 25i. Recall that 25i's tolerance can last 3 weeks. 4-AcO-DALT was never assayed intra-nasally.

After careful reading of the online underground research (mostly erowid and BL) regarding 4-AcO-DALT, 4-AcO-DPT, and 4-HO-DPT, I hypothesized that a double-blind test between these would make them completely indifferentiable in terms of effects. I may still think that.

50 mg of 4-HO-DPT were orally bioassayed and gave me a +1, with nice relaxation, perhaps some auditory stimulation.

A week later, the same dose was insufflated and caused a solid psychedelic buzz of no more than three hours.

A week later, the same dose orally was assayed, along with some Rhodiola rosea to test whether this confirmed in vitro MAOI was worth anything in vivo. This resulted in **no effect whatsoever** (sorry arctic root!).

Finally a week later, I prepared a 100 mg cap, planning to take it, and noticed there was only 58 mg left in the bag. Thinking about all my previous research, I decided to take all of it, assuming I was in for a short ride akin to 2 or 3 tabs of acid. The result was this ridiculously strong trip, and the setting not being right, it was a bad trip, which left me, to use another bluelighter's words 'with a few bruises to my psyche'.

After this, I have put my research on 6-carbon amine tryptamines on ice, and also because I got excited about the availability of the novel lysergamides (AL-LAD in particular, which has always interested me, as mentioned above). I believe I have briefly commented on them on bluelight. Perhaps I will elaborate on them when I have time. I also have very positive things to say on micro-dosing, and if I ever find the courage to take 4-HO-DPT again, it may be in a micro-dosing range (20 mg?).

So, to conclude, I believe like others that a typical dose for these materials is between 50 to 70 mg orally, moderately stronger up to 100 mg, and mg for mg they are probably indifferentiable in terms of effects.

Typical onset is within 30 minutes, and typical duration for moderate and strong dosages is usually no longer than 3 hours.

Nasal route (snorting) seems to potentiate effects by a multiplicative factor of 2 to 3.

My personal contribution probably consists in identifying a dramatically steep dose-response curve over 100 mg for 4-HO-DPT, and hypothesize the same thing for 4-AcO-DALT; so be prepared.

The question of therapeutic potential of these materials is probably answered with ideas such as micro-dosing, as well as the fact that a 3 hour total activity possibly fits better a psychotherapy session than 8 hours of LSD or 20 minutes of DMT...

Exp Year: 2012ExpID: 101510
Gender: Not Specified 
Age at time of experience: Not Given
Published: Nov 10, 2015Views: 4,270
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4-AcO-DALT (444), 4-HO-DPT (608) : Unknown Context (20), Retrospective / Summary (11), Combinations (3)

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