The Dark Sorceress
4-HO-DET & Cannabis
Citation:   Sapphic Geometry. "The Dark Sorceress: An Experience with 4-HO-DET & Cannabis (exp104024)". May 17, 2017.

25 mg oral 4-HO-DET (powder / crystals)
    repeated smoked Cannabis  
  20 mg oral Pharms - Chlordiazepoxide  
It had been just slightly over two weeks since my previous trip, which was on 32 mg of 4-AcO-MET. For about a week I had been planning to trip this day and for at least the past few days it seemed likely that I may be trying DPT, but when I awoke this morning I wasn't quite so sure about that decision anymore. I only have a small amount of DPT to work with and so I want the set and setting that it's used for the be absolutely perfect, but this definitely wasn't that. For the past few days I have had increasing tension headaches which I've been needing to abstain from all drugs aside from psychedelics for a while to attenuate again. I also woke up somewhat nauseous and with some intestinal issues, so I was hesitant to do much... Despite these however, I still wanted to trip because I wouldn't be able to take another psychedelic for at least another two weeks. Since I've been having so much fun with psilocin analogues lately, I opted to sit out on the DPT for now and instead take 25 mg of 4-HO-DET.

In retrospect, I kind of wish I had taken a little bit less to start out with. So far I have taken 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-MET that originated from the same source as this 4-HO-DET, and both of them gave me a fair amount of nausea at the beginning. Considering that I had gotten it from both of them but never from any 4-hydroxytryptamines (including mushrooms), I figured it might just be a class thing. But, it's worth noting that this 4-HO-DET gave me a good amount of nausea and distress too, which I didn't expect quite as much from reading reports. It's possible that this was a coincidence, but it also makes me more hesitant to use substances from this source in the future.... At the least, I look forward to when I can attempt a different batch of this psychedelic again in the future to see if these effects translate over or if it only applied to this particular powder.

So, it took me a little while longer to get to the dosing than I thought it would because of unexpectedly talking to some friends for a while first, but I eventually ingested the 4-HO-DET at 1:00 PM. After preparing myself a bowl of weed to smoke, I got in the shower to help smooth myself into the effects of the drug. Part of the reasons why I almost always take a shower on the come-up of a psychedelic is because it distracts from that head pressure I get, which is good because the beginning of a trip can definitely set an experience for me. I actually was a little worried about smoking the weed too because I know that it can make my tension headaches come out worse, but I had tried and failed to obtain some nitrous oxide to go along with my trip earlier in the day, so I decided that this would be acceptable for now, and once the trip is over I would officially take a break from all drugs except one or two trips a month for a while. Anyway, with this resolve in mind, I started relaxing in the warm water.

As usual with this particular family of tryptamines for me, the effects barely took any time at all to start showing themselves
the effects barely took any time at all to start showing themselves
. The very first visual effect I got, a fuzzy green waving and overlapping of surfaces, was nearly identical to the first of alerts of mushrooms or low doses of DMT for me, and relatively unlike 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, or 4-HO-MET. The feeling it gave me made me anticipate a stronger experience than I'm used to from this chemical's close relatives, aside from mushrooms. There was also a notable body energy to this drug that was kicking in fast, one that I could definitely see being uncomfortable if it got too strong. It gave me the annoying tremors that are not unheard of with tryptamines, though the only one I've gotten it from prior to this was 4-AcO-MET. Fortunately these did not last very long into the duration of the trip, as far as I can recall. It seemed like the more psychedelic effects of the drug were not quite reaching the intensity I was hoping for yet (note my impatience in that it had only been maybe some twenty minutes after dosing), and so I quickly stepped out of the shower to start taking a few hits out of the bong bowl that I had prepared. Once I got back in the water, things started getting a little more intense.

There was something very delirious in a hyperspatial way about this 4-HO-DET. I could see the glass walls around me in the shower attempting to transform into human female shapes that attempted to draw my attention but wouldn't remain constant. These visions were increasing in intensity all around me to the point of starting to have dream-like imagery replacing my reality, but again, it was fleeting. It did feel like though at a higher dose these could become more solid immersive visions. At the same time, my state of mind was starting to become very scattered. In a way that I can compare heavily to LSD but not to anything else that I've tried so far, my perception of myself was becoming distorted as a part of this delirious haze. It wasn't the kind of ego loss where I am simply reduced to nothingness, but rather the kind where I start to forget who I am and experience other lives or perspectives instead. But the way that it played out visually and in my mind's eye was literally JUST like LSD. It was too similar for me to go unnoticed, as just recently on my previous LSD trip I had this happen and there was a recurring theme of misinterpreting myself as Taystee from Orange is the New Black, but this time on the 4-HO-DET rather it was Tara from True Blood. A clear sign that I watch too much television, but it made for a nice and easy connection between trips.

I got dressed and then went to listen to some music while smoking some more, and something was starting to become very obvious to me, something which I had actually read about before but forgotten by this point: this drug has little to no euphoria whatsoever. There was a transient tingly feeling and sense of giddiness that came in waves like a typical mushroom trip, but aside from that, there was barely a change in my state of mind to speak of other than the psychedelic delirium. One of the first ways I noticed this was in that music didn't seem to be enhanced nearly as much as it would from any other psychedelic, and this triggered a whole train of thought revolving around this. An important conclusion I came to was that mushrooms, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, and 4-HO-MET for me all had a very clear effect that I got from all four of them stronger than any other psychedelics: a very pure, peaceful, and intense orgasmic body high which just made me totally content with reality, and very loopy and just blissfully happy. 4-HO-DET on the other hand was like their polar opposite, producing much less of this than any other psychedelic for me. It made a very significant impact on the trip, because as opposed to the divine, cosmic feeling I get from most 4-hydroxytryptamines, this one actually felt extremely down to earth. It was almost like experiencing a mushroom trip but just in my regular state of mind rather than a pumped empathogenic or spiritual one.

While I was actually enjoying that aspect of the trip, a negative part of this lack of body high is that my already iffy body sensations were not masked in any way, and the weed that I smoked still caused my headache to come through in full. As I mentioned before, I was also fairly nauseous for a lot of the trip at first, and I felt a lot of muscle tension all over my body as well. Again, I'd very much like to see if this would be the case with a different batch.... I'd also just like to try this again at a lower dose next time and in better health to see if I can't learn how to better utilize the trip without having such physiological distractions. All things considered though, for the time being I decided to take another hot shower. It was maybe a little around an hour after dosing at this point, and the true psychedelic effects of the 4-HO-DET were really starting to manifest now.

One thing I noted is that I felt myself moving into an objective, dissociated perspective that I felt quite similarly to this on 4-HO-MiPT and somewhat on 4-HO-MET. It sort of felt like slipping into a neon void while still navigating external reality simultaneously. The visions that I was getting were also started to reach an incredible complexity, and this is what I feel really stood out about this psychedelic. Though in general what I was seeing mapped the full spectrum of colors, the dominant ones that I could glimpse among the patterns were yellow, red, purple, and black. This is an incredibly bizarre color scheme in my experience with psychedelics, I've never seen anything quite like it; normally things either seem very organic or have dark neon colors like blue, green, and purple, and sometimes orange for tryptamines. But that wasn't the only thing that stood out about the visuals.... Something I thought for the entire duration of the trip was that while every other psychedelic that I've ever tried feels like it creates visions which take place in the light (even when they're completely bold, vibrant colors), the visions of 4-HO-DET seemed to exist in the dark (and again with the same condition). It's hard to explain the difference without actually seeing it, but it added very much to the more grounded feeling of this trip compared to others in this family, it felt much more modern or real as opposed to some fantastic journey through the cosmos.

As for the visions themselves, they had evolved into something truly beautiful. As I find is unfortunately the case with many strong tryptamine visuals, many of these have mostly escaped me now, but I remember enough (and was fully lucid at the time) to say that these were some of the most remarkable visuals I've ever seen. Though I think 4-HO-MET still takes the cake when it comes to straight up fractal patterns and form constants, this 4-HO-DET definitely had the richest hyperspatial imagery of any of them that I've tried, to the point of feeling on par with visionary doses of mushrooms. I was now seeing the norm for me on 4-hydroxytryptamines, one thing that the 4-HO-DET did keep, which was entities that mostly consisted of beautiful women in erotic outfits. Again though, as opposed to the very mystical or electric themes I see on the other tryptamines, this kept the same dark overtone that I mentioned before. It was sort of like getting the intense dream-like experience of mushrooms but without the filter that makes everything in life all sunshine and rainbows; this psychedelic allowed me to view things from a more sober perspective which is an incredibly novel view in the psychedelic realm for me.

Once I got out of the shower, I started sending a few texts while I still remembered that I had some to respond to. Typing on my phone became increasingly difficult as the seconds ticked by, with my whole field of vision beginning to warp and expand heavily. There was also another effect that I was getting which I've only ever gotten from LSD before, this very three-dimensional visual effect of entities reaching out towards me which I've associated with heavy delirium in the past. It was seeing this that really helped me connect the concepts of this, the down to earth feelings of the visuals, and the dark theme to all of it. It was all things I've gotten from LSD before, only while LSD has both light and dark qualities for me and most psychedelics only have the light, this one really only had the dark. It was like taking that edgier side of LSD that I enjoy so much and just enhancing it to hallucinogenic levels far beyond what normal doses of LSD are capable of, to full tryptamine beauty.

It also fit with the fact that, despite not having much bodily euphoria, the feeling I was getting from the 4-HO-DET was quite sexual in a way I can compare to LSD, which relates to both the darker visuals and the way that my sense of self and environment was malleable at best, which gives me the feeling of being able to confuse sexual fantasies with what's actually going on around me. So despite the still frustrating bodily symptoms, I was actually enjoying this psychedelic quite a bit. However, about forty minutes after finishing my shower, I was tired of dealing with the physical distress, and took 20 mg of chlordiazepoxide to smooth things out.

I figured that the trip would probably mostly fade after that as these tryptamines don't tend to last too long for me anyway, so I decided to test the erotic factor of this chemical while I still could. The fantasy was intriguing and the orgasm quite excellent, similar to LSD in wonderfully enhanced intensity, but still not quite as just outright blissful as LSD can be. I would say though that I feel that this chemical was more pro-sexual than the other 4-hydroxytryptamines for me, though I feel that this may actually be because of how, as I said before, it didn't leave me feeling like I was so euphoric that I didn't need to seek out any more stimulation. I felt pretty much in my normal mindset, which includes the usual sexual desires and fantasies. After that I kind of just relaxed for a little while and watched the gently flowing visuals around me in my room until I could tell that the benzos were really starting to kick in.

There were still mild visuals for a little while, but I felt clearheaded and edgy enough from the trip that I decided to try watching an episode of True Blood to see how it would mix with the mindset, something I definitely wouldn't find myself doing during a typical tryptamine experience. I actually got into it quite easily and felt my emotional reactions a little more strongly than I would normally while watching the show, and wasn't turned off even from the massive amount of blood in the episode I just happened to watch, but I also ended up getting distracted and texting people about my trip during it a lot too. It was during this time that I started to think of the perfect way to describe the way I felt about 4-HO-DET.... All of the 4-hydroxytryptamines to me seem to have strong erotic feminine vibes, and so I think it's easier for me to describe them as such. Mushrooms to me feel like an interaction with a divine goddess, one of luxury and cosmic bliss. 4-HO-MiPT is similar in many ways particularly in feeling cosmic, but the overall tone makes me think of it more along the lines of a very sensual dominatrix, in that it's very gentle and just fun but also very electric and highly sexual and pretty powerful hallucinogenic at higher doses.

4-HO-DiPT to me was sort of like a futuristic raver girl, it just had this feeling of being very organic and technological at the same time and quite playful and carefree. 4-HO-MET had probably the most mystical feeling besides mushrooms, but very hedonistic, sort of like just giving into this classy flower goddess of pure ecstasy. Lastly, and quite different from all the rest, 4-HO-DET for me gave a very strong vibe of being like a dark sorceress. It was more raw and seductive in nature than its kin, and just left me with this impression like it had all of these real secrets of psychedelia that other substances just keep you too distracted in euphoria to uncover.

I had tried smoking a little more weed during True Blood to see if I could bring the trip out a little bit again not that I felt more at ease on my body, and while it did help a bit it still made me fairly tense. I took another 10 mg of chlordiazepoxide and called it a day. After the episode ended I decided to go swimming for a bit, until I felt basically sober and decided to hang out with a friend. While we were out I bought some nitrous to do when we returned to my house in the hopes that it might revive some of the experience. I smoked a little more weed before it to help with that too, and overall the dissociation did seem a little heavier than normal, but not overly significantly. The trip was pretty much over by then, so I ended up just doing a little more nitrous and then I was done for the night. I decided not to let myself go too overboard with it to be in the spirit of beginning sobriety again for a while, which after the trip I just felt even more reassured in thinking of as the right decision.

In the end I would say that 4-HO-DET, like all the other 4-hydroxytryptamines, has some things that are truly unique to it while still retaining many of the qualities of its family, but the lack of euphoria and different mindset that it provides makes me want to say that it's probably the most different of them that I've experienced so far. I feel that the dark feeling it provides combined with the incredible visual experience has actually made it one of my favorite psychedelics now, and it also makes me really excited hoping to find more psychedelics which might share some of these qualities, like DPT may as I've heard. I very much hope to get myself to a point of being able to enjoy the 4-HO-DET experience fully without any side effects in the future so that I can explore more deeply this wonderfully novel compound.

Exp Year: 2014ExpID: 104024
Gender: Female 
Age at time of experience: Not Given
Published: May 17, 2017Views: 2,997
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Conferences (361), 4-HO-DET (365) : Alone (16), Entities / Beings (37), Sex Discussion (14), Combinations (3), First Times (2)

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