Review Erowid at
Help us be a 2020 "Top Rated Nonprofit", and spread accurate info
about psychoactive drugs, health, culture, & policies.
("Share Your Story" link. Needs quick account creation but doesn't verify contact info)
The Death Shaman
4-AcO-DET & Blue Lotus
by caressmymind
From Reddit Collection
Citation:   caressmymind. "The Death Shaman: An Experience with 4-AcO-DET & Blue Lotus (exp105335)". Jul 27, 2019.

  vaporized 4-AcO-DET  
    smoked Lotus/Lily - Nymphaea nouchali var caerulea (flowers)
    smoked Cannabis  

Last night and this morning, I very poorly executed an idea to try smoking 4-AcO-DET fumarate. I was trying to smoke the fumarate because I had never heard of it being done, and I wanted to see if I could get something out of it without converting it to a freebase. I found a couple reports of people smoking DMT fumarate with no issues, so I figured I would be willing to give it a try.

But, being that I was very tired and stoned at the time, I didn't really want to go through a lot of trouble for it, so I tried to just sandwich it into a bowl of ground up blue lotus petals, kind of just hoping that I could estimate how to use the flame well enough this way.... After the fact, I actually kind of regretted the decision because I could no longer recover most of my dose if I had decided to opt out of smoking after all, which I was sort of feeling would be the case. I ended up wrestling with the decision after sleeping on and off all night, only to impulsively smoke the whole bowl while still in bed and half asleep when I woke up in the middle of the morning.

When I had loaded the bowl I had put in 30 mg, but in hindsight this seemed like a really stupid decision. The highest dose of 4-HO-DET I have taken before this was 25 mg, but that was orally, and I've never taken 4-AcO-DET before. This is a big part of why I struggled so much with the thought of whether or not smoking this would be a good idea; in the end though, I made peace with the fact that even if it was still super intense I wouldn't expect it to be life-threatening, and I would be prepared for it if it was, and reminded myself that I was probably going to lose a good bit of material through poor vaporization technique
I was probably going to lose a good bit of material through poor vaporization technique
and not knowing anything about the best way to smoke this fumarate salt anyway. Judging by the strength of the trip I got, I would say that this definitely seemed to be the case.

It took me maybe between five and six slow pulls with held breath to finish off the bowl I had loaded, and after that I just sat it down and continued to lie in bed for a few minutes. The initial feeling I got was extremely similar to smoking DMT, and the taste was sort of reminiscent though also muffled through blue lotus. I felt sort of sweaty just like I would after smoking DMT, and I was starting to get very faint patterns in the darkness that were complex and intricate and swirling in a way that I associate with hyperspace. The only real differences between the beginnings of this trip and DMT were that this was building much more slowly and seemed to be peaking much lower, but at the same time, the level to which things were bending and distorting in the darkness seemed to be a little stronger. I ended up picking up my phone and staring at some text on the screen, and after a couple of seconds I could see it transforming lightly in place. I was tripping for sure... just not by much.

After maybe five or ten minutes, I was starting to think that this was mostly going to be a dud in terms of actually seeing much of the hallucinogenic aspect of 4-AcO-DET. I did feel notably euphoric though, more than I normally would have on a much fuller dose of 4-HO-DET. After rolling in bed a little bit more and having a quick but quite pleasurable orgasm (the actual sexual excitement was not much altered, though), I decided to get up and take a shower to enjoy the body high I had while it lasted. Because of the way that effect had crept up on me slowly, I was also somewhat suspicious that certain aspects of the trip might still be approaching their peak even this long after smoking it, and for that reason I decided to load a bowl of cannabis to bring with me into the shower to try to get the most out of the trip as well.

By the time I was actually stepping into the shower, I was starting to feel pretty good. In my experience so far, both 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-MET have a way of hitting me really hard with a sedative-type effect on the body at first, and then quickly transitioning into a strong stimulating effect, and this pattern is far more noticeable than with psilocybin mushrooms or 4-HO-MET for me. In the same way, this 4-AcO-DET seemed to now be transitioning into a phase of very excited energy that I would not have expected from 4-HO-DET. Excited that what I had originally judged as a weak dose was starting to give me an actually pretty refreshing and easygoing experience, I enjoyed dancing around in place under the warm water for a few moments to let it all sink in, and then took a few big hits off of the bong.

Before I go on, I should cover some of my previous experiences with tryptamines. In particular, I should talk more about the differences I have noted between psilocin and 4-HO-MET compared to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-MET. As far as whether the differences between these two classes of molecules comes down to the esters actually being active, just different pharmacokinetics, or what have you goes, I have my own ideas and theories, but of course I cannot say for sure.... What I can say is that while a lot of the ester experiences do seem mostly to me just like harder hitting versions of the indolols, there is undoubtedly something seemingly 'extra' in them that I can't just easily explain away. I would have to say that the simplest way I could describe the difference across the classes is that the indolols to me seem much more purely sexual and manic and personal, whereas the acetate esters can be very sexual as well, but also tend to be more cosmic and universal, and also more lucid and visionary. The indolols I would say I would probably consistently choose for a more easygoing and sensual trip, but the acetate esters are what I can pick when I want to open up the doors to the spirit world.

So, going into this experience, I had a few expectations that I tried to shove into the back of my mind for the sake of not directing the trip in any particular way. What I can say had been on my mind though is the fact that 4-HO-DET tends to be quite unique from other tryptamines for me. The themes it uses tend to be very dark and magical in a notably human way, like themes of witchcraft and sorcery, whereas psilocin and its other analogues tend to be very brilliantly bright and divine in many ways. The color themes I've gotten from 4-HO-DET also tend to stay more towards the reds and yellows than the blues and greens, which is pretty significantly different to most tryptamines for me. It also happens to be basically the most lucid of the psychedelics I've tried, and strangely the least euphoric. So with all of these things in mind, I was really wondering just how 4-AcO-DET might compare or contrast, especially after, as I already mentioned, the fact that the euphoria I was feeling was already much stronger than on 4-HO-DET....

Anyway, once the cannabis started hitting me in the shower, my energy level increased even more significantly. I felt very excited and started getting very deep into a mental conversation with myself, which was accompanied by my rapidly intensifying visual imagination. It seemed that those couple of hits of cannabis has been enough to push this trip from threshold into full swing, because even if I still wasn't feeling it strongly enough to see more than some very light breathing and visual snow in my external reality, internally I was watching my mind fly out of control like it likes to do, and the visionary effects of the substance were actually becoming extremely powerful for where I was. The imagery was extremely structured and realistic, highly mathematical in an organic and intricate way, and deeply emotional in meaning. And, very notably to me, though some of the darkness of 4-HO-DET was still evident, I was also just as strongly getting typical psychedelics shades of blues and greens as part of the basic visual architecture. Even at this point, I could definitely say that it was different enough from 4-HO-DET to merit treating them as essentially separate, if inherently connected, experiences, keeping in line with my experiences with the other tryptamine acetate esters so far.

When these visions first started to appear, they had taken a mostly erotic path, as things often do when I'm feeling euphoric and in the shower. However, very quickly more of the darker sides of life than 4-HO-DET can touch became apparent, but this time, they were fuelled by a strong shamanistic vibe similarly to what I had felt on 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-MET but not on psilocin or 4-HO-MET, something that makes them feel actually much closer to DMT in their energy. For me, 4-HO-DET I think would most accurately be described as 'seductive', particularly in the way it uses that dark nature.... 4-AcO-DET, on the other hand, feels more like the psychedelic that blurs the line between 'seductive' and 'evil'. There was actually a lot of skeleton imagery, which is something I've only gotten significantly on 4-HO-MET before, but that feels a bit more just demented than actually dark. The way this 4-AcO-DET portrayed it, it was more like this substance would be the shaman with a skull painted on her face.... Like a death shaman. Despite the still prevalent themes of eroticism, this darkness continued to grow and introduce themes of distorted spirits and demons and themes of death.... Thankfully, this never got into territory that I would call disgusting or gory, and I really never felt like that would be easily possible. It was really more just like taking all of the darkest parts of the human psyche, and creating an astral plane for them like you would get from a very cosmic feeling psychedelic, but more like a demonic plane, a perverse mix of lust and fear, though I was emotionally quite distanced from all of it....

Probably the most intense part of the trip that is worth mentioning is one part where I felt that many of these monstrous entities were actually observing me from just beyond the boundary to this dark hyperspace
I felt that many of these monstrous entities were actually observing me from just beyond the boundary to this dark hyperspace
, which I was definitely not tripping hard enough to actually be moving in and out of it, but had a clear view to. This felt really notable to me because it's one of the only times on any substance that I've ever had entities which were not human or mostly human in design, and there was a lot of life to them.... If I had actually broken through and been fully in this world, I'm sure I would have been entirely at their mercy. It sounds sort of terrifying to just say like that, but at the time, I actually felt like that would have been okay.... I felt like despite how dark these entities and their world was, I could coexist with them just as well as I would with any other psychedelic entities if I simply accepted them for what they are without fear, and at the same time, even through how crazy this all felt, the whole trip still had that underlying sexual feeling that made me feel safe and confident with myself no matter what I would have to face. I should note, however, that I have been to a lot of really dark places in my mind over the course of my life that definitely helped me to be okay with what I was experiencing on this 4-AcO-DET; I would really not recommend this trip for the faint of heart.

After spending way too long in the shower tripping out, I got out and started drying myself off and took another hit from the bong. By this time it had probably been nearing an hour since I first smoked the 4-AcO-DET, and I would say that it was pretty much wearing off by then. I could still get very light visual distortions if I really looked for them and tried to bring them out by turning off the lights, but the visionary effects were passing, and the energy was starting to let up as well. These effects slowly dwindled I would say over the next hour or two which I would describe as mostly afterglow, before disappearing entirely. Now, I just feel nice and satisfied from having a decently powerful trip, and ultimately unaltered aside from still being high. Despite going into the trip with a bad stomach ache and some acid reflux, I actually felt no negative physical experiences worth noting from this dose, and the only real change I even noticed at all was an increased heart rate, which stuck with me for most of the trip. This happens to me while tripping hard pretty often these days, especially after smoking DMT, and never got to a rate that I would really say ever seemed potentially dangerous.

So in the end, the experiment was technically a success, but I don't expect that I'll ever try to vaporize 4-AcO-DET fumarate again. I definitely am extremely interested in seeing what else it can do though, as I honestly think that it gave me one of the best first impressions of any psychedelic I've ever tried. It's a very unique experience for sure, but there's something about it that just makes me want to keep coming back. 4-AcO-DET has taken me to by far the darkest places of any psychedelic so far.... At higher doses, I could see it basically being like pure insanity, and probably pretty rough on the psyche of anyone who was not prepared for what it has to offer; definitely proceed with caution, but physically I don't think there's much to worry about. Next time I'm pretty sure I'll try working my way up with oral doses until I find the perfect concentration for myself, and once I've figured out my comfort level, I'd love to try vaporizing 4-AcO-DET freebase and see where it can get me.

Personally, I loved this compound, but your mileage may vary. What I find to be dark but fascinating, you might find to be dark but horrifying. On the other hand, you may end up trying 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET and find that there's nothing dark about them all at for you. But, in my case, this is the way my experience has gone so far. So, just always remember to know your limits before dosing, and stay safe!

Exp Year: 2015ExpID: 105335
Gender: Female 
Age at time of experience: Not Given 
Published: Jul 27, 2019Views: 1,181
[ View as PDF (for printing) ] [ View as LaTeX (for geeks) ] [ Switch Colors ]
4-AcO-DET (188) : Sex Discussion (14), Entities / Beings (37), First Times (2), Alone (16)

COPYRIGHTS: All reports are copyright Erowid and you agree not to download or analyze the report data without contacting Erowid Center and receiving permission first.
Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.

Experience Vaults Index Full List of Substances Search Submit Report User Settings About Main Psychoactive Vaults