Survey: Hallucinogens & Relationships
Researchers at Columbia University are seeking
individuals who have used a psychedelic while in a
romantic relationship, for an anonymous survey.
Both individuals & couples are invited to participate.
Check out the Survey
We're All Winners
by Natorade
Citation:   Natorade. "We're All Winners: An Experience with 4-Aco-DMT (exp106430)". Sep 6, 2018.

30 mg oral 4-AcO-DMT (powder / crystals)



An old friend from college I’ll call M and I decided to go see the Doobie Brothers in a grassy music venue in a small San Francisco park, and decide to take 4-AcO-DMT. Being relatively inexperienced with psychedelics and wanting to be cautious about his dosage, he measured out 8 mg for himself. M had done 10 mg two weeks prior.Although I was new to 4-Aco-DMT, I had done LSD, 25I, and mushrooms - all several times - and I felt confident that I could survive a reality shattering experience, so I had him measure out 30 mg for me.

A bit of background on myself: I studied engineering but consider myself much more interested in the humanities. I am very empathetic, introspective, social but introverted (oriented inwards instead of outwards), intuitive, and crave order in my reality. I am more interested in ideals, theoretical models than I am with the practical trivialities of day to day living. However I fully believe in proving my theoretical models with real world data (essentially using the scientific method to observe relationships between variables in isolation, or as much isolation as possible). I get along with a few, select people, but I feel extremely close to those people, however I am not normally shy-acting, as I love to meet and interact with new people. I had eaten a full meal that day, and brought along a large bottle of water, which I continuously consumed. Neither M nor myself take any prescription drugs, and no other mind altering substances (including weed) were consumed for the duration of the trip.

And now, we begin the account!

We find a patch of unclaimed earth to enjoy the music from. Although our view is obscured by trees, our seats are uncomfortably slanted, and we have no blanket to sit on, we try our best to relax and down the hatch we go.

About 15 minutes after we dose, I feel a sudden swelling of intense anxiety in my body. I can’t believe I’m coming up this fast, especially because I ate a full meal about an hour before dosing. I pray that the anxiety I’m feeling does not remain for the duration of the trip, and thankfully after about 1-2 minutes, it completely subsides.

We sit for a half an hour, cracking jokes about all the other weirdos in the park (because we’re sooooo cool on our pile of dirt with our crappy view), when M realizes he needs to pee. We go to the bathrooms, M comments about how he is feeling “floaty.” We find our seats again, and M comments on how he can see his hands in “high res.” By this point 45 minutes have passed and I am beginning to feel disoriented, and slightly dizzy and I also feel a strange pressure on the back of my skull that lasts for the entire trip (6 hours). I start to hallucinate slightly, as I notice patterns in the trees beginning to morph and change. The trees look as if they are painted, and the paint is melting. I tell M about the melting trees, and he says he isn’t experiencing any visuals.

my friend is bored with the music and wants to go hiking. I know he will be disappointed because theres not much to explore, but agree to leave because he seems to strongly desire a change of scenery. I don’t believe I can stand up, but I try and find that I am much more stable on my legs than I thought I was going to be. I feel very self-conscious as my friend and I try to exit the park without falling on anyone.

We reach the end of the park, and M is unsatisfied because he wanted to go on a longer hike, and the park is very small. He seems bored of the music, so I suggest we walk out into the city, although I have no preference on what we do.

At this point I can see swirling patterns in the earth, but non-living objects and people remain unchanged to my visual perception.

It has been about one hour since we dosed, and we decide to sit on a log. This is where I peak in terms of visuals. Reality is almost ripping itself apart, yet it remains intact and I remain sane. It’s a close call, and I mention to my friend about how were I to take a larger dose, I might not have been able to remain in control. Repeating fractals appear in nature all around me. I sit upright against a tree, and breathe deeply, noticing the chaos that is ensuing around me. I think about how I could choose to let this experience bother me, or I could choose not to let it bother me. I choose the latter, and watch, breathe, feel, and experience the explosive chaos of sights, sounds, emotions, and thoughts that are dynamically shifting through my reality.

At this point, I lose sense of time, and an unsure if this experience has happened a thousand times before or once. I have a vague memory of my friend telling me about the present experience, and I feel as if I am traveling backwards in time instead of forward. I wonder if I will be sick, but the nausea passes.

My friend M mentions that he wants to explore the city behind us, and I wonder if it will be possible for me to walk in my current state. I stand up, the chaos seems to subside, and I am able to walk. As soon as I walk, the visuals become much less intense, perhaps because my attention is turned to inanimate objects (houses, streets, cars).

We decide to explore the city, both of us slightly frustrated that we did not have a good view of the performers or any nature to explore. I find it extremely humorous that every person has a constantly evolving series of desires and motives within them, and we all play out this experience together - a collection of joy, sadness, anger, lust, achievement, hunger, connection, frustration, and love. The order that I structure the world with normally is disintegrating, and I see the raw forces of the universe interacting to paint a beautiful, yet chaotic, tapestry of existence.

At this point (about an hour and fifteen minutes in), I am starting to become more and more aware of the emotions everyone around me is experiencing, and less attached to my own preference of things. I think that whether we choose to do one thing or another, an experience will result, and no experience is inherently better than any other. I may have a preference at times to, for instance, put on a jacket, or eat a hamburger, but to not do those things would result in an alternate manifestation of the universe, and each manifestation would be equally valid.

About an hour and a half intro the trip, I become hyper aware of the effect that my actions have on other people. I realize that I have the power to completely alter other people’s experience in life due to my actions. This power horrifies me. I am very empathetic towards people and want only the best for them, but I know that I can induce an infinite number of emotions, depending on the action I choose to engage others with. I feel trapped, because I also know that I cannot make people feel a certain way, I can only act, and people will respond in a way that suits them in that moment. There is no controlling reality. There is only allowing. There is only watching the universe unfold in each moment. I can’t say that any one manifestation of the universe is better than the other. That being said, I do I feel an overall, spiritual, sense that this experience is “good,” no matter what happens.

I notice how feelings within me occur in cycles. One emotion morphs into the next, in a constantly evolving experience that is influenced by stimuli from my environment. In one sense, it does not matter what feeling I have, or what experience I have, no one emotion is “good” or “bad” anymore. Each emotion simply flows into the next, and no single emotion ever lasts for very long anyway. So in one sense, it makes no difference what action I take. However, on another level, I do desire to be warm, and to be fed. I imagine how horrible it would be to suddenly break my leg in this moment, or be locked in solitary confinement. A deep sadness overtakes me as I imagine all of the suffering that occurs every moment on this planet.

We walk a couple blocks until we find a park. At this point it has been about two hours since we dosed. I feel very self conscious about peeing in a bush, until I actually start peeing at which point, I feel as if nothing is wrong. M runs off to a play structure and begins swinging on the swings. He lies down on a spinning platform and spins around. His body is positioned such that he looks extremely out of place to me, and I am worried that he will draw attention to us. I had a bad experience with the police in the area a few years ago, and I didn’t want to repeat that, so I mention to him that although i see no problem with his behavior, other people might, and so I would feel more comfortable if we acted normal. I don’t know if I’m being overly cautious, but it alleviates my worries when he says it’s no big deal and we can walk back to the park. I mention how would love to run around and be crazy, but I feel inhibited because I don’t want to draw attention of people (and police) who are not sympathetic to psychedelics.

My friend and I leave the play structure, and walk back to the concert. When we arrive about two and a half hours into dosing, we relocate to a bench, where we discuss psychological concepts such as people’s motives and personality. I see all of reality as an art piece, and notice how the trees are a particularly beautiful manifestation of the universe in this moment. I laugh as I think about all the ways in which humans express their realities - painting, music, math, etc.

Three hours into dosing, the band plays “Taking it to the streets” and I jump up (it’s my favorite song of theirs) and rush to get closer to the music. I feel excited and happy, and dance and sing to the music. I notice some cute girls have been watching me, and feel an impulse to talk to them. I decide not to, because I don’t want to be responsible for other people’s experience while I am in this state. I watch other people, and think about how no one has any answers. We are all just trying our best, and everyone knows just as much as everyone else. I notice all sorts of people and can clearly feel what they are feeling.

By this point, my empathetic skills have increased to an incredible degree. I am acutely aware of every person around me, and their feelings, and desires. I notice a young 20s boy aimlessly wandering and feel his loneliness, his desire to belong. I notice a group of very attractive women sitting on a blanket. A couple of them make darting glances at nearby males including myself, I extrapolate that they would like male company. I notice the frustration of a nearby girl. I project that she is frustrated due to her less than ideal seating arrangements on a path with a view blocked by trees. I notice a mixed group of men and women, laughing, and feel their happiness.

A long log encloses the area, where outsiders - older people, those who came alone - are seated with a socially appropriate distance between each of them, and this makes me sad. It occurs to me that people long for connection to others, yet so many people feel alone. I look around, stricken with grief, paralyzed because I can’t help them all, and on top of that I am not even sure of what to do about my own loneliness. I can’t even decide on where to sit, aware of the different social forces at play in the various groups around me. My friend M sits on the log and I join him, slightly relieved that we have found a place, but also slightly frustrated that we have relegated ourselves to the “outsiders” area. My friend M says he has to pee, and I say I do as well. He suggests relieving ourselves in the bushes behind us, but I am paralyzed by the fear that someone will see me and become disgusted. Finally, he convinces me to go, and I feel infinitely better that I was able to stand up to my fear, and nothing bad happened.

The concert ends about 4 hours into the trip, and M says he has fully come down. I am still far from sober.

As we walk along the pavement passing through throngs of people, I realize that every person is trying their best, and each person is another manifestation of the universe. It is at this moment that I feel as if I gained an understanding. That understanding is simply that we are. The reality that each of us experiences on a day to day basis IS the end goal in life. There is no greater purpose, but by existing, we have each “made it.” We have, in essence, won. I see everyone as a winner, simply because they exist. There is no goal to arrive at, there is only the dynamic process of being, and that process, which cannot be stopped, is winning. This changes nothing practically, and on an every day basis, we may “lose” or “win” in trying to achieve our goals, but this process that we live through is truth. I felt as though we all were in connection with divinity, just through the very act of experiencing life.

We get into my car, and I am happy to be out of the cold. I am in no shape to drive, so I hand my friend the keys. I become largely incapable of expressing my thoughts, as they happen too quickly for me to capture in words before a new thought occurs to me. I am able to, with extreme focus, interact intelligibly with people, though not effectively.

[Erowid Note: Driving while intoxicated, tripping, or extremely sleep deprived is dangerous and irresponsible because it endangers other people. Don't do it!]

5 hours after dosing, we stop at In N Out, where I see friends from my childhood. I mention that I am tripping hard on 4-AcO-DMT, and that they shouldn’t be worried but that I also don’t have the capacity to interact meaningfully with them. They graciously leave us, and I wait outside, try to breathe as my friend gets a hamburger. I think about all the ways in which I could have an effect on the random strangers around me. It is too much for me to handle, and all I can do is sit, and imagine the possibilities of human experience that everyone is having, and could have, due to my actions. My friend drives us back to my house, and by the time we get home I am mostly sober, but still know that my communication skills are far from fully restored.

6 hours after, I completely sober up.

I am glad to be sober at this point, although the experience was not a bad trip. Life would simply not be sustainable in that altered state, as my thoughts, emotions were too chaotic for me to live effectively. Taking 4-AcO-DMT was like releasing the floodgates on reality, and it all came rushing out at me. I had no faculties to effectively respond to any of the stimuli, and being sober I once again feel I can handle things in an organized and effective manner conducive to continuing my existence. I feel very appreciative of the order in my sober reality, although I also appreciate the insights gained from the experience.

For reference, this was written the night of the trip, about 9 hours after dosing.

Update from the next day: I slept about 10 hours that night, and felt tired and drained the next day at work (I work as a programmer). It was difficult to do work that required logical thinking even a day after dosing, and my communication skills were still lackluster at best. I feel completely sober at this point, and believe that tomorrow, I will be back at full functioning capacity.

Much love to everyone reading - You’re all winners ;)

Exp Year: 2015ExpID: 106430
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: 23 
Published: Sep 6, 2018Views: 1,979
[ View as PDF (for printing) ] [ View as LaTeX (for geeks) ] [ Switch Colors ]
4-AcO-DMT (387) : Small Group (2-9) (17), Nature / Outdoors (23), General (1)

COPYRIGHTS: All reports are copyright Erowid.
TERMS OF USE: By accessing this page, you agree not to download or analyze the report data without contacting Erowid Center and receiving written permission prior to your downloading the data.

Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.

Experience Vaults Index Full List of Substances Search Submit Report User Settings About Main Psychoactive Vaults