Citation: Xorkoth. "Curiously Deep: An Experience with 4-HO-DPT, MXE, 4-HO-MiPT & Cannabis (exp107197)". Erowid.org. Nov 10, 2015. erowid.org/exp/107197
I have recently come upon a boon of rare and interesting psychedelics to try. One of these is 4-HO-DPT fumarate, received as a homogeneous light tan powder with little smell. Years ago I had the chance to try a low dose of 4-HO-DPT nasally, and it gave me a taste of this gem, but I didn't even remember that I had had that taste until I was looking up information about it the other day and came across my old post, and I surprisingly remember nothing of it. Quel surprise! Reading my sparse account made me even more excited to give this another try. I told a couple of friends about it and we made plans to try it together soon.
That day arrived on Saturday, October 10th, 2015. My good friend asked if I wanted to come over to his house and try something, perhaps the 4-HO-DPT. I had no other commitments so I agreed. My mental set is very good, things are going swimmingly in my life with a lot to be happy about and thankful for. The setting was great, alone in a comfortable house with my friend and his dog, no chance of interruptions, a couple of hours after a planned dinner of some homemade macaroni and cheese. My friend informed me that he had a bit of MXE left that I could do, which I was excited about as I love combining MXE and psychedelics. I have plenty of material for multiple trials and I planned to do a less than full dose to test the waters, so I didn't feel bad about adding an adjunct despite it muddying up my report a bit. Truth be told, I was a bit nervous given this is a relative of the 'big, bad' DPT, which I have wanted to try for many years but have always been a bit afraid of. MXE tends to leave me feeling more comfortable and immersed into experiences, especially with tryptamines, where it seems to me to not color the experience a whole lot at low to moderate dosages, instead just letting the character of the tryptamine shine through more easily and deeply. So, with a general plan together, I grabbed my materials and headed over.
Dinner came and went, and sated, we wait around for a while, talking and laughing. We smoked a small bowl of marijuana and cracked a beer or two... I had about 1 and a half beers within 2 hours before I took the 4-HO-DPT, not enough to feel more than a light, relaxing buzz. In talking, we decided we want to try to IM it, rather than do it nasally, as we had read it is more potent and preferable by most who had reported on multiple ROAs. We also read that it's very hard to get the fumarate into solution, but that it had been done with a bit of acetic acid and heating and stirring for a while.
So at about 8:15pm, we decided to get underway since we planned to dose at 9. I weighed out 30mg for myself and 12mg for him (he is an extreme lightweight on most things and works up dosages very cautiously), and put it into about 2mL of distilled water, in a narrow shot glass. We added a number of drops of 5% distilled white vinegar and prepared a hot water bath which would contain lightly boiling water. I had read that the most successful method was to use a boiling tube and heat it vigorously to the point where most of the liquid was evaporated, but we had no boiling tube or flame sufficient to boil anyway and we didn't want to try to use a microwave as was also suggested. The 4-HO-DPT seemed to not dissolve in any manner whatsoever upon being introduced to the water, the liquid was still clear and the powder floated at first, then sank to the bottom after stirring a bit, much like a freebase would do. However I am sure it was not freebase because the acetic acid made no difference in its solubility or appearance. Into the water bath it went.
Over the next 40 minutes we took turns stirring it almost continuously while the water heated. Slowly, oh so slowly, the water took on a slightly off-clear appearance, but the volume of powder barely diminished. In this time I decided two things: I would snort my dose of 4-HO-DPT, and seeing as how my friend only had 8mg of MXE left, I would IM that, along with 8mg of 4-HO-MiPT. I was still nervous to try something DPT-like, and I find 4-HO-MiPT to be very euphoric and comfortable, so I figured I'd add a bit of that, and besides, I had never IMed a tryptamine before. In truth I haven't IMed much, just MXE 3 times. I hate needles but I am interested in the IM route so I want to get more comfortable with it and experience it a bit more, before I use it to take DPT (regular DPT I mean, not the 4-HO counterpart). I decided to snort 32mg of 4-HO-DPT with this. My friend decided to just IM whatever had gone into solution of the 4-HO-DPT. We estimated 5mg (upon recovering the remaining powder later by drying it out, we found we were right on the mark and that only 5mg had dissolved).
When we were finished preparing the syringes for intramuscular injection, and weighing my dose for snorting, it was almost exactly 9pm, so we decided to embark on our journey. There were no wheel filters, so I made the poor decision to IM the solution of MXE and 4-HO-MiPT anyway, at my friend's (a very experienced needle user) reassurance that the chances of a problem are very slim. I felt sketched out though because the MXE had a little black particle in it that didn't dissolve at all, probably some sort of debris. I went through with it anyway though, I'm not really sure why but it proved to be a lesson to me later (I will get to that at the end). I injected into my quad... it hurt a bit and the solution burned as it entered my muscle. I'm sure the burning was from the 4-HO-MiPT, as MXE alone has never burned before. I held my breath the whole time and it seemed to take forever to depress the whole plunger, and by the end I was in a cold sweat. I absolutely loathe the feeling of a needle in me, as a kid I used to sometimes pass out when I got a shot or even worse, had blood drawn. Doing it to myself is exceedingly unpleasant, but this was my fourth time and it was less fear-inducing than before. As soon as I finished, I laid out my 4-HO-DPT, 32mg, onto the table, and used a razor blade to chop up the little chunks as finely as possible. It was a surprisingly large amount of powder, and it went into 2 lines. My right nostril was clogged up so they both went into the left, one at a time, separated by a minute or so. The powder had little taste and absolutely no burn whatsoever, but I felt it coating my nasal passages and a tiny bit into my throat, which was a little unpleasant. I laid back and tilted my head to prevent my nose from running while it absorbed, and we began to wait for the effects to begin.
it didn't take long. I felt the telltale signs of a very slight warmth and comfort from the MXE, then immediately after a faint glow from the 4-HO-MiPT, and then immediately after that I began to feel an unfamiliar feeling that was the 4-HO-DPT. We were listening to electronic music, hard psytrance (not my thing, I prefer melodic music with a groovy beat, but my friend loves it) and talking, and a warm, fuzzy feeling began to descend over me. When it began to hit it seemed to displace the other two feelings, or perhaps they merged together into something unique. Either way, the warm fuzz was what I was feeling, and it wasn't anything I'd ever felt before (well I must have years back when i tried this the first time, but I truly do not remember anything about it, probably because I was tripping way too much then).
The feeling was nice and comfortable, but a bit off-putting at the same time, in some way I can't articulate. Sort of like how when I come up on DMT or 4-AcO-DMT, I get this buzz that fills my body and mind and I feel unable to function normally and don't know what to say. In that way this was like that, I found myself talking a lot less and not really having words in my mind, but where the DMT version is a high-frequency buzzing that makes me feel a little panicked and uncomfortable, this buzz was a steady, stable fuzzy feeling that left me ringing a bit with it. I felt calm and comfortable except for a slight twinge of anxiety that I couldn't place the reason for. Over the course of a little while, though I can't say how long as my time perception was quite altered right from the start (and it remained that way throughout), this feeling built steadily. The music grew more interesting, especially after I asked my friend if he could switch to something more downtempo and melodic. He obliged, and randomly chose something I really liked, it reminded me of Shpongle crossed with Caribbean musical forms. We listened to that for a while. My friend was clearly not feeling it as strongly as me (no surprise given the dosage discrepancy), and he was doing most of the talking, just about random stuff. At some point, perhaps after 45 minutes (though since I kept no notes or looked at any clocks it's hard to say), I suggested we smoke some weed.
I loaded up a one-hitter for each of us of some high-quality buds, and we proceeded to smoke them. Immediately things began to evolve in a very nice way. As sometimes happens, it was as if the marijuana unlocked the gates and the psychedelic could show its full force. This was most certainly the start of the peak. The feeling grew much stronger almost immediately, and a fuzzy, warm body high that was quite pleasurable was the first thing I noticed. My friend was affected the same way, exclaiming 'whoa, cool' several times. With my eyes open, things took on an 'intense' look that reminds me of how it looks when you have taken a psychedelic but not quite enough to 'get there', but when I closed my eyes, an immediate cacophony of shapes and movement and imagery assailed me. I found it fascinating and a bit awe-inspiring. The closed-eye imagery was as intense as it usually ever gets on high doses of things that I consider to be good closed-eye visual substances, in stark contrast to the open-eye display. I wanted to explore that more but my friend kept wanting to talk so I felt weird just sitting there silently with my eyes closed, so I didn't get to explore it this time. I feel however that this will truly shine if taken by myself, with my eyes closed and music as a companion.
Mentally I had a hard time telling how I was altered. I certainly was altered, but not in a way that reminded me of any other psychedelic. Well, perhaps mescaline. I was very aware of things, and very aware of my emotions, and I felt quite serene, though unlike with mescaline there was always this slight darkness around the edges. I wasn't having classically psychedelic thoughts though, no looping, no revelations, no weird tangents. Instead, my mind felt clear but rapid, and I was able to explore whatever I thought about from an impartial perspective while maintaining my personality and personal feelings on the matter. It was really quite interesting. I asked my friend if he could put on the album 'Hosianna Mantra' by Popul Vuh, something I was introduced to recently. Popul Vuh is a pioneering experimental electronic music group from the late sixties/early seventies, and this album is their third, the same type of music but all instrumental. I was enjoying it a lot, but I think it was a little slow for my friend. After a bit, he asked if we could put on something of theirs on soundcloud so he could message with his girlfriend at the same time (we were listening through external speakers on his phone). That album wasn't on there but some of their earlier works were, so we put that on.
This is when my favorite part of the trip started. I became enamored with this group. So many of the sounds we heard are sounds used today in psychedelic electronic music, but these guys created those sounds, and with an old-school analogue synthesizer. I was blown away by the artistry and creativity of it... I usually find electronic music in the psychedelic genre hollow and contrived (a notable exception that comes to mind is Shpongle, and others as well such as Beats Antique), but this music was absolutely glowing with life and creativity and sparkle.
After a while it was over and we put on another piece by them, 'I'm Making a Mirror'. This piece consists of repeating and overlapping rhythmic patterns of sounds and tones, fully utilizing the directional aspects of sound. I felt and heard the sounds moving in patterns around my body in 360 degrees... I could pinpoint exactly where each sound was, physically in both direction and distance, around me. Whether my eyes were open or closed, I was detecting the same thing: the music was building some sort of monumental architecture around me, and that architecture, as it grew, was having an effect on my energetic field in some way. It was mindblowing to me that such a thing was possible to do with sound, and I found myself understanding (or feeling like I was understanding) music/sound in new and novel ways that excited me. Upon reflection later, I could not really recall exactly what those revelations were, but the experience of it was powerful. During this experience I felt the fuzzy feeling grow strongly in intensity. My eyes would want to unfocus and when they did I felt a profound feeling of dissolution, as if I was about to dissolve into energy and ascend out from the top of my head. This feeling felt amazing and slightly disconcerting at the same time. It never led anywhere though, it was just a series of fuzzy rushes almost nitrous-like in their flash and intensity and brief duration. The feeling felt profound and deep, primal and visceral. I am excited to see where it leads in the future when I try a higher dose without the distraction of socializing.
As time went on, I became more and more comfortable and euphoric. At first I wouldn't describe the trip as euphoric, it was more neutral in nature with a very comfortable and pleasant body feel. But as it progressed and slowly fell off the peak, I felt an outright euphoria develop. I began to feel more like talking and we discussed the sensations and thoughts we had been having as well as many other things. We both agreed that this felt powerful and unique, and that it greatly enhanced the perception of music. The word I associated with the feeling in my body and mind, and the rushes I described, was 'divine'. In some way I cannot quite fathom or describe, this state feels special and sacred. Perhaps this is partly due to my preconceptions about DPT, but nevertheless it's what I experienced. We continued to talk and laugh and listen to some more modern electronic music, as well as a finished track by my band, for a while longer.
At some point we both agreed that the main effects had ended... he felt more or less sober but I still felt that light hazy fuzz that characterized the feeling of my experience for me. It was about 11:30, so about 2.5 hours had elapsed, quite short but it was the duration expected. It felt like at least twice that length of time had passed, however. I certainly did not feel all the way down though, I felt a stable residual energy that was very pleasant and seemed that it would be with me for some time. My friend suggested a beer, and I agreed. I drank about half of it when I suddenly noticed that the feeling had dissipated in that short time to about half. I felt a sort of warning, which seemed to say to me that alcohol does not mix with this, that they are mutually exclusive and I was about to ruin the nice afterglow. So I stopped drinking. Mescaline feels the same way to me, but generally I really enjoy drinking on the tail end of most tryptamines and all lysergamides I've tried, as well as most phenethylamines.
We stayed up until about 3am, hanging out, and then tried to go to bed. At some point I smoked another hitter and the feeling came back more strongly for a bit, but of course not to a full trip. We both had a hard time falling asleep. I actually got up and drank a decent bit to try to get tired at about 4. I wasn't even tripping anymore, I just felt a warm afterglow and I didn't feel drowsy. I got slightly drunk and read my book for a while, and finally fell asleep, maybe around 5am.
That was the end of the experience, but I wanted to make note of the results of the IM injection. The next morning the area was sore to the touch and surrounded by a slight pink inflammation. As the day went on it stayed the same or got even a little worse. I know soreness from IM administration is not uncommon, but given the poor practices we used, I started to get really nervous. I certainly don't want to develop an infection or abscess as a result of my drug use. I thought over and over about how there was that debris in there, and I started to psyche myself out. The next morning it was the same, but not worse, so I felt a little better. The next day I still felt it but it was a little better. Now, today, 3 days later, it's still tender to the touch but it's no longer visibly inflamed. This has been a lesson to me in safety and in using IM administration as a special case. It certainly would have in no way been worth it to IM a few milligrams of substances I could have gotten about as much from by taking orally, if I had developed a problem because of it.
From now on, I will save IM injection for special cases when I am able to practice fully safe procedures, for substances that are much superior via IM than via other routes, such as DPT and ketamine (but not MXE). I also learned in talking to some people about it that one should only IM in their glutes or shoulder and particularly not muscles below the waist. Lesson learned, I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it with anything but fear.
In summary, I really enjoyed this trial with 4-HO-DPT and I look forward to my next one, in which I am going to take 50mg nasally, alone and with no other substances except probably a bit of cannabis, on my bed with headphones and music. I feel from this exposure that its true value will be in solo expeditions with eyes closed.
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