A Fascinating Reintroduction
ETH-LAD & Cannabis
Citation:   Kaleida. "A Fascinating Reintroduction: An Experience with ETH-LAD & Cannabis (exp109199)". Erowid.org. Sep 22, 2016. erowid.org/exp/109199

T+ 0:00
100 ug sublingual ETH-LAD (blotter / tab)
  T+ 1:00   repeated smoked Cannabis  
This is my first time writing a trip report since back in February. A lot has happened this year that has kept me from taking psychedelics, but it would seem that the worst of it is finally over now. In recent months I have started dipping my toes in the water again so to speak with low doses of things that I am familiar with and have found the space inviting to re-enter, so I opted to go for more of a full, solo experience this time to see if I was really ready to start tripping again. And, though I would have to say that this experience certainly wasn't the easiest or most recreational, I believe that this trip showed me that I am ready to pick back up where I left off with this part of my life.

I had actually been thinking about taking 5-MeO-MiPT again for this experience, the last psychedelic that I took a full dose of and wrote a report about, but in the end of the previous day and the morning leading up to this trip I got a few personal signs while meditating and then during a lucid dream that in the past I have taken as a hint to take LSD, as it has always led to a powerful trip. That's what convinced me then to forego my plans to take something strong but familiar, and instead initiate my very first ever trip on a research chemical lysergamide, with ETH-LAD.

My previous experience with psychedelics includes LSD, DMT, MiPT, DiPT, DALT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-MET, 4-AcO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 2C-B, 2C-I, DOC, MDMA, Psilocybe cubensis, Ipomoea tricolor, and Argyreia nervosa.

T-0:30 - I woke up with very little memory of what had happened during my slumber, which is what I had been hoping for, after having returned to sleep from my aforementioned lucid dream about an hour and a half before. My mind was clear, at least as clear as it can be right after waking up in the morning, and I was ready to start preparing for my trip. Over the next half an hour I just did basic early morning stuff, going to the bathroom, waking my mind up more, eating a half PB&J to settle my stomach. Then, when it was just a minute before 9 AM, I went to go cut myself off a blotter.

T+0:00 - I placed the 100 ug blotter of ETH-LAD under my tongue, and then pushed it around in my mouth over the next five minutes as I let it dissolve. I'm not sure if it's because this taste was actually strongly present (not strong compared to something like DOC, but to LSD) or if it's just because I had read about others describing it before, but I definitely noticed a subtle sour sensation shortly after it first touched my tongue that stayed with me to at least some small extent for a pretty significant portion of the experience. However, LSD can also put a strange taste in my mouth for most of the trip which doesn't seem to be related to much of a taste, so even if it was sour at first it could have just been an illusion after that. Either way, a couple minutes after I swallowed the blotter I also ate a small packet of Swedish Fish to help with both the taste and my stomach.

T+0:17 - This is the point where I first noticed that I was feeling lightheaded, in a way similar to how I've felt coming up on other psychedelics. Over the next five minutes I could also feel myself becoming slightly stimulated, but overall I actually felt more heavy and tired than anything, and I found myself just lying down on the couch and waiting for more of the effects to come on. I also found that there was a slight, increasing stomach discomfort that was starting to verge on nausea beginning to show itself, so the lack of movement was helping me with that as well.

T+0:28 - I was definitely starting to feel like it was kicking in more by this time, and I made a note of the fact that much of the stomach discomfort passed suddenly in a burp that also took away some of the kinks in my body energy and allowed a bit more of a dissociated feeling to set in. Two minutes after this, I got into the shower as I had been planning to while waiting for the peak to start.

T+0:48 - I got out of the shower definitely feeling more like I was entering a psychedelic space, and it definitely did feel like a close analogue of LSD as well, but, particularly given that, I was surprised at how little I was still feeling by this point. Usually with a strong dose of LSD I already have some visuals showing up by half an hour after dosing, but then again I had no idea how strong this dose was going to be, so I didn't question it too much. I dried myself off, did my hair, and so on, and by T+0:52 I was noticing that things at least were starting to warp and wave slightly, but nothing more significant than that. I had planned to start smoking cannabis an hour after dosing regardless of how the trip was going so far, so I decided to take one more bathroom break before I really got the ball rolling, and then I lied back down in bed and got comfortable.

T+1:00 - I started taking hits from the bong bowl I had loaded, first with my eyes open. It was light outside by now and the sunshine was coming in through my bedroom window, but I also had a blanket up over it to block some of it and make the room better for getting lost in visuals. However, again specifically with eyes open, almost nothing ever developed. There was definitely sort of a wispy quality to some distortions of light I was seeing, almost like little flashes I've seen trailing all over my vision before a strong headache in the past, and there was also that sort of underwater wavy effect to my vision in general, but beyond that it was really nothing notable. So, after concluding that keeping my eyes open probably wasn't going to do me any more good, I then closed them instead.

For the next 45 minutes, I forgot about taking notes and just became lost in the imagery before me. The thing that I remember by far the best was what I first saw immediately after closing my eyes: a massive, zoomed out sea of arms all raised up, riding the same waves that I had seen superimposed on my room with eyes open, extending as far back as I could see in an endless cosmic ocean, looking basically like it was just a huge crowd of people partying hard at the most epic and other-dimensional rave of all time. Whenever I would focus my perception on any individual part of this scene, I would see it start to unfold before me in various ways, the first way being several of the arms extending out to become a full image of a single girl, but repeated countless times over a linear path extending out to my left, all making the same animated poses in sync. Another that stands out was when I looked more at the center of the crowd, and I flew down into it and started seeing the shadows among it turn into various people with their own stories about how they got to this crazy party, which I could see beginning to unfold, but the trip as not quite strong enough to take me completely into their realities yet. Another thing I noticed at this time was that even during this I still felt pretty lucid when I wanted to be, and when I imposed my imagination on the visuals they also took on some highly LSD-like qualities that no other psychedelic has ever accurately recreated for me, no doubt due to the ETH-LAD's lysergamide nature. I enjoyed all of this very much, and found it sexual enough to convince me to bring myself to orgasm again at one point during it, which came pretty easily and felt nicely enhanced, though not as much as with LSD.

Unfortunately, the effects that I was experiencing at this time were not entirely positive though. Although the trip itself was quite fascinating and deep, my body had really started to feel like crap again in this time, and even worse than it had started to before. As far as I could tell my heart rate was fine, but my breathing did feel a little bit labored, and I was starting to feel cold and sweaty all over, in addition to having cramps in various places like my upper legs and arms. I cannot say how much of this was indicative of real changes in me and how much of it was just imagined, but I can say that it certainly was not pleasant. I attempted to keep it at bay by taking more hits of the cannabis as well, but sadly that actually only made it worse, along with giving me a nasty headache. This has not usually been the most common impact of cannabis on psychedelics for me, but I should note that I have had that negative synergy once before when smoking on LSD, and one of the key elements that I think connects both that trip and this one was a distinct lack of euphoria. Indeed, the lack of much energy I had noted before continued to stay true even through this point, and I never felt anything resembling any of the manic or hedonistic effects of LSD developing at any point. So, I suspect that this may have played a crucial role in this part of the experience, and I wonder if maybe the right set, setting, or dose will give me enough euphoria with ETH-LAD to make me forget about some of these physical side effects.

T+1:45 - At this time I opened my eyes after getting somewhat lost in a huge spiral tunnel of arms that was a more impressive visual than I have seen on anything in quite some time, and I started to assess my current situation. Despite the fact that there still wasn't much at all going on with eyes open, this stuff just felt very intense overall, in both positive and negative ways. Even though I would absolutely not say that it's been even close to as much as a fun drug as LSD is for me, I can certainly see things about it that make it even deeper in its own ways. Make no mistake, this is a seriously powerful molecule with very significant effects, despite seeming subtle in a few particular ways.

I was already starting to gain quite an appreciation for ETH-LAD from these effects, but over the next fifteen minutes I decided to try to take it a bit easier and relax my body more. I also started paying more attention to how I was affected in relation to my interactions with the world around me, and a couple things that really stood out were that most tasks felt a bit too laborious for me to want to do much of anything, and that I realized from the time stamps in my notes that the time dilation I was experiencing was actually starting to get quite strong. I knew I was in for a long day, especially if I couldn't get my body to feel a bit nicer.
I knew I was in for a long day, especially if I couldn't get my body to feel a bit nicer.
Unfortunately, as I often do around when I start losing track of the proper passage of time on psychedelics, I sort of dropped the ball with taking as many notes from this point on, but I do recall that the next thing that happened was that I decided to take a bath, which I believe was at around T+2:00.

T+2:48 - This is when I got out of the bath. It was nice, and definitely made me feel a lot better physically, but I don't recall anything particularly crazy happening in it. Honestly, I think the most intense part of the trip as pretty much already over by then, even though I could tell that there was still quite a lot left to go. This actually is not unlike LSD for me though, which especially at lower doses tends to only make me trip hard for the first few hours, and then it becomes a much less intense but also more euphoric and cognitive experience for however many hours remain from that point on, which varies a lot depending on the dose. Likewise, even though I could feel the trip lessening in intensity, I could also tell that my mind was starting to become a bit more active and I felt a bit more inclined to get up and walk around, so I figured that I might be entering the equivalent of this second phase on the ETH-LAD as well.

T+3:38 - I did continue feeling a bit better as I was up pacing around the apartment and thinking about the experience to myself, but I could tell that the cannabis was starting to wear on me as well, as my headache was getting even worse as my appetite was increasing by the minute, these things often being linked for me. So, at this time I ended up ordering a pizza, hoping that I would feel a bit more up to interacting with people by the time it arrived. I still felt totally stable and lucid, but at the same time still just a bit tired and like any sort of cognitive task was a chore.

T+4:00 - The pizza arrived, and it was freaking delicious. In the beginning I intended to only eat part of it and save the rest for another time, but over the next like hour and a half I ended up eating the entire thing. I also started smoking some more cannabis about fifteen minutes after it arrived, but that turned out to be a mistake again. As much as I wanted it to be, cannabis was really just not a good companion to this trip, and ultimately I think actually made it a good bit worse than it had to be.

T+5:28 - Around this time I started doing laundry, and I still felt stimulated like in the later phases of LSD, but that's about it. No more significant but weak visuals with eyes open, no more feeling of laziness, or so on, just the lingering effects of having mostly finished a trip.

T+11:16 - This was the first point at which I checked the time after feeling convinced that I was now totally down, no remaining effects at all. I also took another bath after making that note to ease my body one last time.

So, that ended up my first experience with ETH-LAD, and with lysergamide research chemicals in general. My initial impression is essentially that it seems incredibly deep, and possibly like it could be a favorite of mine if I can increase the dose and still find a way to remain comfortable for it, but that this dose of 100 ug is probably too low for me to really get the most out of it. An important takeaway from this experience for me as well, which is less related to the ETH-LAD itself, is that I really need to stop relying on cannabis so much. I really don't know why I continued to smoke if even after it continued to make the trip more unpleasant, but I guess that just goes to show how deeply the habit is ingrained in me. I think this trip might actually be my wake-up call though, and I'm intending to leave the cannabis out of my next few trips instead, and if I have anything to synergize with the psychedelics it will probably be nitrous oxide instead. I'm also thinking that I'm going to go on a break from smoking cannabis just in general now too, so I guess we'll see how that all turns out next time.

Before I wrap this up though, I would like to make a few observations about the effects of ETH-LAD in relation to other psychedelics that I have experienced. Most significantly, this trip has now made me it seem very clear to me that lysergamides follow the same kinds of structure-activity relationships as more basic tryptamine psychedelics, making them functionally, in addition to just structurally, an extension of this class of psychedelics. This is something that I have suspected for a while now, first based just on their shapes, and then especially as a result of the similarities between LSD and 4-HO-MPT, but this trip pretty much takes the cake for me.

To explain what I mean, first consider the fact that the lysergamide base, LSA, is nothing more than the molecule of MPT with the tail conformationally constrained to the 4-position of the indole ring, and then with the three free hydrogens on the last carbon of the propyl group on the tail substituted for a double-bonded oxygen and a nitrogen, upon which the two ethyl groups of LSD will sit. This should mean then that LSD and other N-methyl lysergamides are most likely to be functionally similar to the MPT group of tryptamines if there is a connection between them, and while I have not tried MPT myself, what I can say is 4-HO-MPT is definitely shockingly close to LSD for me in many ways at sufficient doses, producing more similar visuals, headspace, and euphoria to it than any other psychedelic I have ever taken, though with a good number of mushroom like qualities thrown in as well because of the 4-substitution pattern I'm sure.

So, going back to comparing the structures then, if you can see the relationship between LSD and MPT then you should also be able to see that ETH-LAD would share the same relationship with EPT. While I am afraid that I have not taken any EPT-based psychedelics myself, one thing that I do have to say about my experience with ETH-LAD is that I could not get over how many similarities I felt it had to both 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-DPT, which 4-HO-EPT would lie structurally just in between. For instance, all of the indoles I have tried at full doses that had a methyl group on their tail, including tryptamines like 4-HO-MPT and lysergamides like LSD, have given me a very distinct euphoric energy even at low doses that also tends to make me shake and pace around a lot throughout the experience, whereas all of the indoles I have taken that lack a methyl group, including 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-DPT, and ETH-LAD, distinctly lack this euphoria and stimulation even at doses that produce arguably full psychedelic effects, and cause me to spend most of my trip just lounging around.

Another significant relationship I have noticed between indoles with different straight chain alkyl substitutions on their tails is that there seems to be a direct correlation between the overall bulk on the tail and the amount of geometric visuals, more commonly seen with eyes open, and the visionary hallucinations, more commonly seen with eyes closed, at the lowest fully active doses of the molecules, such that greater bulk means less of the former for more of the latter. For example, mushrooms, with a tail bulk of two carbons on the 4-HO-DMT, for me cause very powerful geometric visuals, so much so that they can be DMT-like in intensity. 4-HO-MET then, with three carbons, while still quite visual, is a bit more simplistic in the geometry for me, not quite so likely to take me completely into an alien world, but at the same time, I do find myself more easily having cartoony visions play out before my eyes than I would with mushrooms, even if they are less engaging. Next, with four carbons you get a two way branch, between 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-DET, and interestingly, I find both of these to provide fewer and more simplistic geometric visuals still than 4-HO-MET, even though they both also produce such strong visions in me that they can start to cause a delirium. Unfortunately, as I said I do not have experience with 4-HO-EPT so I cannot say what happens with five carbons, but what I can say is that the six carbon version, 4-HO-DPT, indeed for me produces almost no geometric visuals for me at all until the dose is quite high, with literally none at lower doses, even though it can already be so visionary by that point that it starts sucking me into an out-of-body state.

What's significant about all of this now though is that I can translate it into my experiences with lysergamides, and still I think it is valid. First of all, LSD, again being quite similar to 4-HO-MPT for me, produces visuals that are somewhat similar to but geometrically less complex than 4-HO-MET's, while also providing similar but more fully developed visionary effects at the same well. Then, secondly, ETH-LAD continues the exact same trend that I would fully expect from 4-HO-EPT from experience, in the sense that its geometric visuals are reduced even further from LSD, 4-HO-MPT, and 4-HO-DET for me, while notably still being slightly more than 4-HO-DPT would give me for the same level of trip. At the same time, not only is this pattern consistent in a general sense, but it even holds up in a more superficial way as well, as the visuals of ETH-LAD, 4-HO-DET, and 4-HO-DPT all share the same dark and wispy qualities for me whereas LSD, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-MET, and mushrooms for me all share very bright and intricate designs, and as far as the visions go, the way that they began unfolding for me on ETH-LAD starting with closed eye imagery of hands all reaching out is exactly the same kind of thing that happens for me with 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-DPT, though more detailed, and it felt to me like it could also become just as delirious or out-of-body as either of them can.

Anyway, I could go on more about it, but I think I've probably made my point by now. I really do think that there is a lot of insight to be gained by thinking of lysergamides as a unique subclass of tryptamines in this way, and I have to say that the notion of having a drug that feels like and takes me to similar places as 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-DPT but with many of the special lysergamide-only qualities I love so much about LSD thrown in is quite exciting. It also makes me even more curious about what PRO-LAD would be like, as I would think then that that would be the lysergamide equivalent of the DPT family, but I suppose I should settle for focusing on what I can actually use for now. I will definitely be exploring much further with ETH-LAD in the future, and very much look forward to writing more about its effects as they unfold for me!

Exp Year: 2016ExpID: 109199
Gender: Female 
Age at time of experience: 25
Published: Sep 22, 2016Views: 4,762
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ETH-LAD (688) : Alone (16), Combinations (3), First Times (2)

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