A Welcome Yet Subtle Addition...
Citation: DJ-DDP. "A Welcome Yet Subtle Addition...: An Experience with Phenibut & MDMA (exp110558)". Erowid.org. May 2, 2018. erowid.org/exp/110558
For the past few weeks, I’ve been experimenting with phenibut. On its own, it is a very interesting compound, with truly significant--albeit subtle--effects, and deserves its own report. However, I have recently had opportunity to try it in combination with another very important compound to me, and I’d like to provide that write-up now, while the experience is still fresh in my mind.
I am one of those people for whom MDMA has “lost its magic”.
I am one of those people for whom MDMA has “lost its magic”.
Having had very significant, powerful, and life-changing experiences with it in the past (nothing close to overuse or abuse: maybe half a dozen “major” rolls in 3-4 years), I was rather saddened to discover that about 4 years ago, my reaction to it has--for lack of a better phrase--simply petered out. Even at what--for some--is a very high dose (200-300mg) of reagent-verified high-quality MDMA, I merely experience a “mild” effect: a deep relaxation, pain deadening, mild empathogenesis, and a reduction in anxiety. These things are worthy on their own, and are the primary reason I still use it 4-5 times a year with my partner. That being said, I experience nothing close to the classic “rolling” effects I used to: no “heart-bursting” empathy, no “floating on air”, no “ecstasy”. Even at 300mg, the effects are merely pleasant.
Having tried phenibut at 1.5g, I began to suspect that there may be a positive synergy between the two compounds, if not a full-on potentiation of one on the other. So, on the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend, it was time for a road-test. The schedule and amounts that follow were the same for both my partner “M” and myself.
T minus 5h: ingested 500mg phenibut on an empty stomach.
T-3h: ingested 1g phenibut on an empty stomach.
T-2h: light snack.
T-15min: antioxidant regimen: 2000mg Vit C, 500mg ALA, 200mg Magnesium
T-0: 300mg MDMA in a solution of 5cc sterile water, administered rectally -via- syringe and catheter (this is a RoA completely eliminates G.I. issues, and provides for a silky-smooth [but powerful] transition).
By this point, the phenibut has moved me into a mildly relaxed state. My body is feeling supple, ever-so-slightly languid, and at times just a bit heavy, not dissimilar to the feeling one has after having just come from a long soak in a hot-tub. It’s a lovely, sunny, late spring day, and we go out onto our back deck to await the first alerts, which we expect to abide by our regular dose-response curve: mild alerts at 15min, first real alerts at about 30, then a few pushes up to the main level at about 45min (again, the rectal RoA has nice benefits, including shorter come-ups). That was decidedly not the case.
T+20min: The MDMA is acting noticeably different. There is no “initial” anything. A wave of heaviness and body stupor plows into me with nearly no warning at all. I suddenly feel rather drunk. The word “drunk” is used purposefully here: I feel “drunk” in the classic sense of the word. I start to feel lightheaded, clumsy, flushed, and slightly dazed. So does she. M says we should make our way down to the safety of our bed (post haste) in our basement bedroom, where it’s blissfully dark, cool, and quiet.
We do so, much to my relief. The effects are still building, and I am feeling a bit giddy, pleasantly confused, and mildly overwhelmed. Simple tasks (turning on soft twinkle lights, getting music going, etc) seem inordinately complicated, confusing, and possibly impossible. Fortunately, and with great determination and effort, they *do* happen. The environment is now set, we are now naked, in bed, and awaiting the plateau.
T+40min: The strength of this reaction of mine is really surprising me. Whereas normally I’d let go a few good, deep breaths and sighs, in this new phenibut-enhanced place, I find myself vocalizing in a more classic “Ohhhhhhh… Pheeeeeew… Woaaah!” manner. I do not, however, feel any anxiety whatsoever.
T+60min: I feel leaden. My body is so deeply relaxed, it feels nearly numb (but again, in a decidedly pleasant way). The music (a custom mix I did at her request of Peter Gabriel, wonderfully romantic music, deep ambient tracks, Mozart's “Moonlight Sonata”, and a number of other pieces that flowed together -ala- “Ultima Thule”) is noticeably more lush, sensual, heart-touching, and more inspiring than it had been during previous experiences. It’s truly lovely.
T+90min: We bump an additional 100mg in solution orally (we are both too discombobulated to do the rectal RoA at this point in the experience). The bitter taste shocks us both out of our happy bubble momentarily, but a menthol cigarette helps bring us back in by erasing the terrible mouth punishment with something as strong, yet vastly more pleasant. In retrospect, the bump should likely have been a bit more for us--maybe 150mg--but not wanting to over-do anything with the unknown variable of the phenibut in play, I decided to stick with Shulgin’s 33% booster model.
T+2hr: The boost is mild, but felt. For the next hour, we lay together, love each other, smoke cigarettes, and listen to music chosen specifically for this activity. My mind is clear and bright. There are no worries, no problems, no stress, no pain. Just contentment. It is lovely.
T+2.5hr: At this point, with the MDMA slowly ebbing away, I prepare two very large (8 chargers each) balloons of nitrous oxide (which is slightly more of a feat than normal due to the still slightly drunk feeling I swim in, combined with now significant nystagmus, which is unusual for me). This is our traditional “come-down” parachute, but is also far-and-away the most NOX M has had in one session. In our state, the balloons look preposterously large. When I prepare them, M often gets anxious (the fear of the “pop”, which has happened once or twice) even though relaxed and rolling. She comments that, oddly enough, she’s not feeling anxious about it at all, nor do I look like I am either. We suspect the phenibut is at work here again. We are very relaxed as we begin our trip out into the stars in our traditional manner: she snuggles close to me, I take a huge draw, then “shotgun” it to her in a loving kiss. She then goes on to have one of the most significant NOX experiences of her life. I say “one of” because it’s so good for her, we repeat it shortly thereafter.
T+4hr: We are gliding down from the mountain. We decide it’s time to emerge from our subterranean sanctum sanctorum, reintegrate, have a bite to eat, some antioxidant after-care, and compare notes.
There is no question that phenibut changed the MDMA experience for the better for the both of us, and it pleasantly surprised me in this regard. Having said that, though, I feel the need to be clear about this: the change was noticeable, but subtle. Did it restore the “lost magic”? No
the change was noticeable, but subtle. Did it restore the “lost magic”? No
, and I don’t want people thinking that it may. That caveat in place; subtle positive enhancements are still positive, and welcome.
Some benefits the phenibut pre-load provided:
* Reduction of “come-up” anxiety (if used 3+hr prior to MDMA)
* Reduction in body load / discomfort post-roll (remember: phenibut is a long-burning actor)
* Reduction in bruxism (even with the magnesium, I still experience it due to my higher than average dose, but I noticed it lessen in severity this time)
* Greater relaxation / Less amphetamine stimulation
* Even greater enhancement of music
* Mild G.I. gurgling (due to the oral phenibut)
* Mild-to-moderate lethargy
* An over-all “softening” of the MDMA experience
* Very little negative anything. Possibly an exacerbation of nystagmus
* There is no question in my mind that the phenibut either significantly reduced the MDMA onset time, enhanced its impact, or quite possibly both. This effect is set apart from the Benefits/Neutral/Negatives because a faster/more powerful onset is different things to different people: some want that, some don’t. For the latter, I could see this combination creating its own anxiety by blasting them sideways in a way they didn’t anticipate, especially those for whom MDMA may be a bit “old hat”. So, caveat emptor, YMMV, etc.
Over-all--and while not giving me back my MDMA virginity--phenibut most certainly gave my/our most recent MDMA experience a unique flavor that was a welcome addition. A gentle, worthwhile experience in its own right that adds a slightly different dimension to what may have become--for one reason or another--a slightly routine journey. And speaking for this traveler, it’s a welcome companion.
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