Citation: Kaleida. "Bridging The Gap: An Experience with 4C-D (exp113681)". Erowid.org. Nov 14, 2019. erowid.org/exp/113681
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[This trip report is written from a multiple-identity perspective.]
The following Greek letters have been changed to protect the innocent. This trip report is written by Zeta and Omicron, with this first part by Zeta.
This was our fourth experience with 4C-D, and as I type this, it happened just over five weeks ago. At the time, we were still attempting to remain on a six month break from all drugs, but just over two months in, we cracked specifically for taking psychedelics; we felt that keeping them out of our life was not having the same sort of more positive impact that abstaining from some other drugs was, but rather missed the positive impact they seem to have specifically when we do take them, and eventually decided it was worth giving up for them. Of course, now about three and a half months in, we've pretty much given up the break in general except for the fact that we still need to stop using cannabis long enough to be able to pass a drug test, and we're high again as I type this too, but at the time we were still thinking this premature ending of the break would specifically only apply to psychedelics, and that's notably why this is at least one of our only psychedelic trip reports ever that does not involve the use of cannabis, a difference that in and of itself was quite insightful in this case. The rest of the drug break story is for another time, but suffice it to say that we were a lot more successful with it still than we've been with any other break in recent history and think we've learned a lot about how to better moderate our use of things in the future.
Since this is the first time we've actually published a trip report about 4C-D, let me first give a little bit of backup into our prior experiences with it. Our first attempt with it was at 50 mg, which was a very subtle experience, but quite active.
Our first attempt with it was at 50 mg, which was a very subtle experience, but quite active.
We could already tell at the time that the molecule acted in part as a psychedelic, even if a very functionally unusual one, and wanted to see more of what we could get out of it in that way, but we were so far uncertain of any possibility that it also had supposed empathogen-like effects; the high we felt was a little "empathogenic" in nature, but mostly in the same way as many typical psychedelic phenethylamines are for us. Our second experience was at 75 mg, and it wasn't incredibly different from 50 mg, but the effects had definitely increased in intensity somewhat. Importantly, while the psychedelic effects were still very light in most ways overall, the mental and physical euphoria was starting to become quite strong and resemble molecules like LSD and 2C-C quite a lot, and we could tell that those things could legitimately overload in more trippy and fully psychedelic ways at a high enough dosage too.
Finally, our third experience at 100 mg showed this to be true, and suddenly felt like a mostly full-blown psychedelic trip, as we were completely in it in terms of the cognitive and bodily space, but there were no sensory hallucinations to speak of still except two or three extremely brief and fleeting flashes of slight, but very complex, patterning. Imagination content was extremely vivid and detailed in psychedelic-like in emotional and creative ways and felt nearly hallucinatory, however. Overall, the trip resembled other phenethylamines in that it felt very light and easygoing mentally compared to many tryptamine psychedelics but was still deep and meaningful, and in retrospect it reminds us a lot of DOB in that way in particular; while still being somewhat distinct from them, it feels quite obvious to us that 4C-D is still functionally related to the alpha-methyl phenethylamine psychedelics from which it's derived. In all cases, the effects took at least around an hour and a half to start truly manifesting, and while the heaviest peak seemed to be over in a smaller number of hours, we felt it trailing out for a very long time similarly to the amphetamine psychedelics, like up until around twenty-four hours later we thought we could still detect a little something.
We decided to go with 125 mg this time around just to continue to simple stepwise progression up from before, and we decided to go with 4C-D specifically because we were hoping for something that would pretty euphoric, longer-lasting, and importantly, low on the hallucinogenic scale, the last point because I was trying to avoid giving myself reasons to miss the cannabis we would not be mixing with it, since psychedelic hallucinations always seem to be kicked up a notch by cannabis for us. Still in the mindset of trying to remain on break for all drugs but psychedelics, I was wanting to try to get something out of having as easy of a trip as possible without the cannabis component and also remain cognizant of what sort of effect the 4C-D had on my desires to use drugs in general, as it seemed like a potentially good time to measure a possible anti-addictive effect of this drug comparable to other psychedelics. We were also not too worried about continuing to push the dosage with this more novel molecule, even considering that we seem somewhat sensitive to phenethylamines, first of all because we've already seen trip reports of up to 150 mg, and second because we've read scientific texts claiming it was given human trials decades ago up to 270 mg, and there was at least no mention of danger made, and we hadn't felt any considering or at all significant side effects developing in our use of it yet either.
Our previous experience with psychedelics includes DMT, MET, MPT, EPT, MiPT, DiPT, MALT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-MALT, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-EiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, 1P-LSD, 2C-C, 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-E, DOC, DOB, 4C-D, Myristica fragrans, and MDMA. Our most recent trip before this was on 10 mg of 5-MeO-MiPT, and was the last psychedelic experience we had during our month of tripping leading up to the beginning of our six month break, so just over two months before this; tolerance would obviously be low and sensitivity high.
T-0:46 - We wake up at our parents' house where we are staying alone for the moment and feed their cats.
T-0:30 - I take 500 mg of magnesium oxide, a substitute for the 2000 mg of magnesium glycinate we've been taking lately which we forgot to bring from our apartment for this. We've taken it before past 4C-D experiences hoping to balance out any phenethylamine body tenseness if it comes and while we can't say for sure if it would have without it yet, we figured we'd rather keep it up than take our chances for now. After this I went to the bathroom and then started preparing the dose.
T+0:00 - I take the 125 mg of 4C-D orally with water and three peanut butter-filled pretzels to wash out the nasty flavor. After this I spend the next fifteen minutes tending more to the cats, hooking up our laptop and preparing it to play songs on YouTube later, and then making a bowl of cereal. I finish eating it at T+0:20 and notice that I'm feeling slight heavy or lazy at the end of it, but maybe that's just because we recently woke up and moved around a lot and then I just quickly ate this bowl of cereal and sat on it for a moment. After that I got up and got some fresh clothes to change into our of the dryer from the previous night and noted that walking around the house definitely was starting to feel very slightly different, like something was starting to slowly build.
T+0:25 - In the bathroom again, while sitting on the toilet my legs are pulsing a bit like when we're coming up particularly on 4-substituted, and maybe 5-substituted tryptamines, but less intensely than that so far, just a hint of it. At this time, the others are starting to briefly switch out and back with me and we feel slightly confused and drifty and having music looping in our shared headspace, so it definitely now seems more certainly like something is starting to steadily come on. At T+0:30, we finish up and get in the shower.
The hot water feels amazing, as always but better than normal, and shortly after I get in, the first truly psychedelic effects begin to become apparent. There is a sudden burst of imagery emanating from within but spreading out into the world, sort of a spinning gear of particularly green and purple light with a white light at the center that poured out into the environment and caused simple but pleasing tracers and sparkles along with some mild distortions like surface breathing; I found it highly reminiscent of 4-HO-MPT, EPT, and 2C-C, though more subtle but perhaps more proportionally active than we've experienced with those yet at this point. Additionally, in front of this spinning, flowing geometric design were largely green and blue, neon, transparent images of people, and in particular other alters in our system, all being portrayed in psychedelic ways along with this geometry, though still being constrained to within the inner space rather than appearing to be in the external world. These images invoked strong feelings of euphoria as well as communication between myself as the alter in focus, particularly Delta, with our inner interactions being especially sexually stimulating and enhanced by the growing energy and euphoria, and I ended up masturbating to a very nice orgasm, but not the most enhanced ever. This was the point at which I and we became truly certain that 4C-D is obviously a full-fledged psychedelic including even visually, it's just one that requires a particularly high dosage and probably needs to be used in the right ways to really get it to show its full potential. I was a bit surprised at how early on in the experience this was all occuring now too, and was excited to see what more the trip had in store for us as it developed throughout the day.
T+0:52 - I step out of the shower feeling fantastic, though there isn't an overt body high yet, I'm just feeling great. Over the next few minutes as I dry off and comb and all that, I also check and notice that our heart rate seems pretty normal though maybe slightly elevated, our pupils still seem to be their normal size, and our skin color tone looks pretty normal, but I can nonetheless that there is also just a bit of a rising psychedelic body tension that is so far in the typical and not uncomfortable range. I started to pace around the bathroom more, feeling the coming up awkwardness growing a bit but still feeling pretty good in general.
T+1:03 - I left the bathroom frantically at this point to escape the heat, the sound of the air conditioner, and the constant standing or moving, and went to our old bedroom and sat on the bed under the fan for a moment, feeling much calmer and more collected. I noticed my heart rate seemed a bit lowered to being more completely normal again, and then I got dressed and walked out into the living room. At this point I make a note that despite the lack of overt visuals coming specifically from the external environment still, there are definitely some visual glitches going in the shadows and peripherals of our vision, like when the brain is trying to fill in space and it does so in a more psychedelic way full of patterns or interpretive designs for just the most fleeting instant before refreshing to what the world more typically looks like, and when it does so it still reminds me particularly of a 4-substituted tryptamine in its visual style. I keep thinking that there are multiple meaningful comparisons between 4C-D and 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-McPT depending on how you think about it, which is something I and we have considered about 4C-D from past experiences as well.
T+1:07 - I'm starting to feel pretty good now but also heavy, and end up just chilling on the couch for a minute to relax. There are two cats here, a male and a female who are siblings, and the female jumps up on the couch next to me and starts kneading the blanket next to me and purring away, while the male sits on another piece of furniture elsewhere in the room watching us from a distance, and pretending not to be watching us. Just looking around and taking it all in with no other sound or moving visual input, the house feels far more tranquil than it has all week for certain, and I became sure that the 4C-D is starting to produce the same sort of state of acute sensory perception that DOB did for us, and some other psychedelics have as well, where everything you're taking in is so intense and overwhelming that just that still and peaceful state is "stimulating" and satisfying enough on its own and all you can pretty much do is take it in. This, however, is not as intense as DOB in that way in particular because the psychedelic headspace is still so light and there's so little extra psychedelic sensory information coming in too by comparison, but it definitely felt like the same sort of state of mind, and I very much enjoyed being in it again.
T+1:11 - I make note that I'm also quite happy to be as high as I am without the need for cannabis, and so far feel like I'm not missing anything without it while finally journeying back into the psychedelic realm, which makes me happy too. However, I do definitely start to feel a queasiness setting in more at this point and know that the drug definitely still has more developing to do.
T+1:13 - The female cat finishes kneading, looks around a bit, and then walks a couple paces down on the couch and lies down. Omicron switches out briefly to inspect the state and watch the cat fondly, and then I switch back in. Shortly after I notice that some of the tension and queasiness seems to be lessening now, but I'm also really thirsty, so I get up and get some water which is very refreshing. At T+1:19 I decide to try putting some music on, starting with something a bit more mellow, so I put on Champagne Supernova by Oasis.
T+1:25 - Breathing started feeling a bit easier through the song again as some of the sense of heaviness starts passing, and some mild but significant colorful visuals started appearing with eyes closed, sort of an unclear bejeweled tunnel alike that of some particularly visual tryptamine psychedelics. Next, the Oasis song Wonderwall comes on and I let it play as I'm enjoying the music so far.
T+1:30 - The female cat gets up off the couch and goes elsewhere, and I note that things are definitely starting to feel more clear again right now, I'm feeling a little less dazed or lightheaded than when it was first setting in. I get up off the couch too and find that moving around does feel nice, the body high is quite subtle but definitely there now and I'm liking it, though it is still a bit heavy-feeling when trying to move.
T+1:34 - Don't Look Back In Anger by Oasis comes on. I'm dancing to the music, slowly because of the heavy feeling but still doing it, and it's fun, and still reminds me of a 4-substituted tryptamine. Similarly to those as well, the initial rush of inner imagery that occurred earlier already seems to be passing too, there are still some mind's eye images but they've become less prominent or intense and more background to the external experience.
T+1:42 - When the song ended I clicked Yellow by Coldplay from the related songs and then went to pee. The relief felt nice, and as usual it caused the external visuals to increase somewhat, which in this case mostly just meant everything started colorlessly warping around a bit more again. While the initial rush of that particularly tryptamine-like trippiness seems to be passing, I can definitely still feel those kind of effects continuing on in a more settled in way, and along with the initial intensity most of the confusion and queasiness seems to have passed too, so I'm feeling pretty good and interested to see where it goes now. It almost feels like it's dipped down in intensity a bit, but thinking back to how DOB came and went in waves even just while coming up and five or six hours in we still weren't sure we were at the maximum level of tripping yet, I decided to reserve my judgement before seeing what else was to come. I also had a big burp after making this note, which further relieved some bodily tension.
T+1:45 - I put on Cake's cover of I Will Survive, and Rho, who really likes it, came out to since and dance to it. She noted that does so feels great, but she feels very heavy still while doing so, and she ended up building up a lot of spit and some nausea from exerting herself which discouraged her from doing more, and after the song ended she switched back to me.
T+1:53 - After that song I just let there not be music for a bit and pacing around to that silence was nice and easier, I still felt like I was in a bit of an awkward coming up phase after all and just wanted things to be clear for the moment as I was a little too high to think straight, not delirious but just heavy as I've said. I decided to go out into the backyard to see what the outside world was like; it was a bit bright and warm so I didn't stay out there for long, but it felt pretty nice at first, and I checked out and watered the garden a little bit while I was out there.
T+2:00 - Back inside, I note that things are feeling pretty good and settled in this moment, overall very peaceful, like this is much more so a contented trip than an energetic one. It still feels like there's just a little bit of a 4-substituted tryptamine mindfuck
It still feels like there's just a little bit of a 4-substituted tryptamine mindfuck
if I stop to think about it, a little bit of driftiness going on, but other than that it's quite clear and easy, just the kind of thing you'd rather veg out on than have to do much thinking on, at least at this point. The cats are following me around a lot at this point too so I feed them again. Afterwards, the female goes back to the couch and starts kneading again, and I start getting lost in thought watching her and thinking about what that action means to her and how it comforts her, and I make a note that I really do think the experience is better without music for now, as I was just enjoying taking simple, not overwhelming information in and inspecting it instead. Omicron also came out again to watch the cat because she really adores her and both of them in particular, and we have a short moment of bonding between the two of us over it internally. As I'm typing notes about this occurrence, the female cat stopped kneading and went to one of her typical spots to lie down and go to sleep, and the male cat then did the same.
T+2:13 - Thinking about the way the high feels, it strikes me as something that may feel very heavy now but then suddenly could become very speedy later on, which wouldn't be totally out of sync with our lower dosage experiences, so I'm trying to be patient and wait out that point to see if this experience is really going to develop or if this is going to be an interesting psychedelic experience but kind of an overdosage for being able to use it more recreationally. Since I'm just chilling on the couch still without really much other sensory input at all, I decide to take a bath instead and see what that does for it.
T+2:21 - Getting in now, the hot water feels excellent and definitely helps with some of the still going tension. I originally put on the song Princess of ZION by Savant, but then realized I was in a bit of a different mood when it started playing and switched to Electric Light Orchestra instead, a callback to our one 2.5 mg DOC experience where we listened to them during some of the physically heavier parts of our experience, which was most of it. I start thinking a lot about 4C-D and it relates to other drugs and how the experience is going so far and also text a friend a few notes, and around T+2:40 Iota starts getting hungry and briefly switches out to take a bite of the peanut butter bar we brought into the bathroom to have as a snack, and notes that it's "not bad!" before switching back to me.
T+2:45 - While the song Tightrope, by Electric Light Orchestra, is playing, I'm thinking about how with DOB we had a moment in the shower of realizing we could "release" our bodily tensions by simply realizing it was just drug-induced perceptual change or anxious feeling and that there was nothing to actually feel tense about and letting that thought really sink in, and as soon as that thought crossed my mind, I "let go" of the tension of the 4C-D as well and suddenly felt much better and freer. I played Tightrope again for good measure, and this time was singing, moving, and tingling all over; good stuff, the energetic part of the trip is finally coming up for sure! I took another bite of the peanut butter bar snack shortly after this too.
T+2:54 - While I'm singing and moving to Mr. Blue Sky (by Electric Light Orchestra!) I have subtle but clear mental visualizations that remind me of 4-HO-MPT, LSD, and DOB beginning to appear and remain relatively static, they larger geometric patterns that are only visible at certain points around the edge with some of the filler missing but they are more detailed in design than many psychedelics and they involve hints of cartoony imagery forming in those visible points, but the effect still doesn't go much beyond this for us at this dosage. The lyrics of the song are also starting to make us light up emotionally which causes some illumination of web-like visuals in our headspace that we recognize from some of the trippier moments of unity we experienced on 100 mg of 4C-D as well as on 1.4 mg of DOB, something we get on multiple psychedelics when we really feel happy and aligned inside. After this song ended, I decided to change the music up again a bit, starting with All Star by Smash Mouth.
T+3:01 - Hooked On A Feeling by Blue Swede comes on next and Kappa switches out to sing and groove to that one and notes that she has a good time doing so. The related videos dip into the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack so Come And Get Your Love by Redbone comes on next. During this song, I realize that I have no idea how long we've actually been in the bathtub, and that I have very little perception of time in general in that moment.... I also take another bite of our bath snack.
T+3:10 - I put on the REDALiCE Remix of Motteke! Sailor Fuku, the opening song to the anime Lucky Star. We have historically used this song as a test of how sped out we are, and I felt that was worth investigating at this point. Immediately it made an energy come surging through me! I danced as wildly as I could in the bathtub to the crazy song and when it was over, I hit replay and danced to it again. At T+3:19, I felt fantastic but also extremely worn out from all that movement, so I finished off our snack bar and then decided to take it down for a minute; I knew I was obviously feeling very speedy now but also really needed to just lie still for a minute as we don't exert ourselves physically to the degree I just had as often as we used to anymore. I put on I Want You by TeddyLoid from the anime Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt and relaxed in it for a minute, just letting the newly developing high really sink in.
T+3:25 - Our friend texted back the song RAVE, OK! by nanobii which we gave a listen, and it also verified how very stimulated we were currently feeling, though luckily we could still enjoy it while just lying there in euphoria. Still feeling more like relaxing rather than moving more at this point, Omicron came back out and put on the song Catharsis by Savant, which I also very much enjoy. During this time period, I was giving a lot of thought to the fact that, as I mentioned before, we had noticed the psychedelic effects of 4C-D developing with the dosage increases and even from the beginning but were unsure of whether or not we believed 4C-D actually was an empathogen or had any fully empathogen-like effects, and at first I was telling myself that while I could see SOME comparison, I just didn't really think it was on the same level as something like MDMA, the only empathogen we've knowingly taken before, and I just didn't want to categorize it the same way.... However, the more I thought about it, the more the high seemed to open itself up and contradict what I was thinking, and by T+3:45 I was saying it was "maaaaaaaybe" empathogenic, though I still wasn't totally confident.... We also decided to start getting out of the bath at this point, but first Iota ordered us some lunch so that part of the wait time would be taken up with us getting out and dried off and everything. She also noted that our heart rate seemed slightly elevated again at this point, but still pretty normal.
This part of the trip report is written by Omicron.
T+4:09 - We're out of the bath now and I've taken over from Zeta for the moment, and I immediately note that she is delusional and that this feels very much like an empathogen, or at least like MDMA, to me! At this point it hasn't gotten quite that strong and nice yet but it's definitely in a similar area that other psychedelics, even the ones people call empathogenic, are not for us, and I would know. While we were unaware of the way our system works all these years ago, we have come to suspect that back when we used to take MDMA regularly and would first enjoy the roll and then afterwards smoke lots of cannabis and enjoy its more psychedelic effects that come in the later hours, Zeta was at least one of the alters connected to the second phase, while I was at least one of the alters connected to the first phase. We all have a lot of different drug preferences in here, and while there are many that prefer drugs that are primarily psychedelics as their main psychoactive of choice, I personally feel that MDMA is the one I always loved the most, and even though we haven't taken it in a long time now for many reasons, I still feel like I miss it and sometimes want to return to the empathogen world in general. That being said, when I felt this high of 4C-D now developing in the later hours, I was (hehe) ecstatic! It was highly recognizable in that way that nothing else has been as of late, and for someone like me who wants that more than I want the pure psychedelic effects, it was especially obvious.
The very first thing that I did after getting out of the bath and getting dressed was walk back out into the living room, and when doing so I noticed that I felt as if I wasn't walking but simply floating from one room to the next, and instantly flashed back to our old rave days when MDMA always made us feel that way. I put on the Klaas Remix of Where's Your Head At? by Basement Jaxx which was a popular song when we first got into that scene and holds a lot of nostalgia for us and me, and the feelings of euphoria increased further. At T+4:13 I went and got myself some mint gum to start chewing on because I was getting bruxism much stronger than we had gotten from anything in years, and probably ever aside from MDMA! I also got some cold water which was incredibly refreshing, and I sat there drinking and chewing and unfocusing my eyes surely looking increasingly intoxicated as the high continued to set in. Next the Klaas Remix of This Time by Dj Antoine came on, then Ghosts 'n' Stuff by deadmau5, and I just got further and further into the empathogenic mindset and high, enjoying the feelings I hadn't felt in so long along with the music I used to enjoy along with them back in the day. I also got more mint gum at T+4:24 because I had chewed all the flavor out of the first piece, though it occurred to me at this time that we actually had food on the way too, but I really wasn't feeling hungry anymore and figured we'd just have to see how it goes.
T+4:30 - I note at this point that I'm starting to get the effect of breathing very heavily and deeply and feeling highly euphoric while doing so also in a way that is highly similar to MDMA and that we generally don't experience this way on almost anything else, and it's obvious to me that the effect is still increasing somewhat, but I do find that surprising given that we're already four and a half hours after dosing. Maybe this drug really is just like the DOx family also in the way that it comes on fast enough but then just keeps rising and rising and rising for several hours, and in this case, at least for us, first has to go through some layers of psychedelic effects before finally peaking more like an empathogen at a high enough dosage? Zeta and I both find it very interesting and keep it in mind to think about, but the food Iota ordered earlier finally arrived right at this moment as well. When I answered the door I noticed that the guy who delivered the food looked kind of like a raver, and I felt like I looked very fucked up and was trying very hard to keep a straight face and not start laughing while taking the food from him, but the interaction was over quickly.
T+4:35 - Zeta comes back out and notes that she's feeling good and is going to try eating the food because she was pretty hungry before even though our appetite is quickly diminishing now, and she puts on the American Dad! episode Standard Deviation, which has both psychedelic and empathogenic elements, while we're eating. Iota ordered us fish and chips with tartar sauce, and while it's immediately obvious that it's going to be hard to finish in a way like on MDMA when starting to eat, Zeta says this is the best fish and chips she's ever had and starts practically inhaling the meal whole because it's so delicious to her. At T+4:44 she was feeling overwhelmed by it all so I popped back out, and as I did I started getting some eye wiggles that also reminded me of a good, strong roll. I ate some of the food myself while I was out and it was damn good.... We weren't eating most of the chips but the fish and tartar sauce were absolutely divine, juicy and savory, so good. After I had my fill Zeta switched back out and finished up the fish, not the chips but we were so full and ready to relax by then it didn't matter, we were satisfied. The episode finished at T+5:04 while we were cleaning up our mess and I switched back out to continue the high where we left off before the food arrived. The food really was incredibly good, but it didn't take long to see that it did bring down the high just a little bit, so I decided to take another shower at T+5:07 to try to milk it back out.
In the shower, Zeta switched back and she and I had some intimate interactions internally in the same sort of way that she and Delta had during our first shower of this experience, and she ended up masturbating again, but the experience was very different this time; whereas at first it was very psychedelic and sexually stimulating in a way that reminded us of DOC and DOB, now she felt euphorically apathetic and noted that every touch felt so good and orgasmic that it didn't seem necessary to go all the way with it anyway, it was just blissful in general again like on MDMA. Nonetheless, she kept going until she got there, but the orgasm was honestly difficult to even distinguish from the high, it was just one long euphoric blur, though the whole experience did actually act as a good reactivator of the more potent effects of the high as I had been hoping it would. At T+5:40 she got out of the shower and at T+5:50 I was back under our old bedroom fan drying off again. Afterwards I got dressed and went back out into the living room and put on I Remember by deadmau5, another very nostalgic song for me and us. I also noticed our jaw was really clenching again and got myself another piece of mint gum.
T+6:04 - The high has continued to fully develop experientially even though it feels like mechanically it's probably peaked by now, and I make a simple note that I haven't felt this way in a long time, and it's good to remember this feeling. It makes me want to take MDMA again even more... but also makes me very happy that we have this 4C-D too because I can obviously get a similar type of experience I'm looking for out of it, even if it's compacted within a stranger and longer psychedelic experience!
T+6:15 - We got a call from our parents who were on vacation and caught up a bit with them and everyone they were visiting, then went back to listening to music. Zeta, Rho, and I switched out listening to a handful of songs, but by the time T+6:40 rolled around, it was clear that the more empathogenic effects of the high were passing, and it was dropping back down to being somewhat more like a kind of empathogenic but kind of more psychedelic trailing DOx-like experience, and I felt satisfied that I had gotten what I really needed and wanted out of it all.
The remainder of the trip report is written by Zeta.
Omicron has switched back in, and now I'm back at the wheel. As she said, while the MDMA-like component, which I now more clearly recognize, does still seem to be around, it's definitely starting to fade compared to before. I have a slight headache at the moment, which is pretty standard for phenethylamine experiences getting on in the later hours for us, but I also think it may just be related to how we've been switching a lot and being triggered more easily by different thoughts, feelings, and perceptions, as headaches are one of our symptoms for needing to switch. I feel like I'm slightly at a loss of where to go with the experience now, and think about how to use it next....
T+6:52 - After thinking a bit and texting a friend, I put on the Bob's Burgers episode Flu-Ouise and eat the key lime pie Iota ordered for dessert along with the fish and chips that we hadn't touched before now. It is damn good, and the male cat has a few licks of his own chunk of it too after he comes over to see what I'm up to. I finish eating at T+7:03 and then just enjoy watching the episode, and also thinking about the pharmacology and effects of MDMA.
T+7:19 - The episode finishes, and I'm thinking about taking another bath or something as there's not much else to do and I still want to enjoy the lingering high, which is still perceptibly going but seemingly weak, but probably not so much it can't be milked back out. I notice that walking around makes the body high more obvious again, I think it's just subtle to begin with so you really have to give yourself a chance to notice it, and when I'm paying attention and especially when I'm lost in thought, I'm still getting some very brief flashes of that colorful spinning gear imagery emanating from within, though none of the abstract human imagery that was accompanying it before. Finally I decided to get in the bath at T+7:40, and while the water's filling up start reading some data and trip reports about 4C-D online. The water feels good as it rises around me, making the subtle high much more obvious even if it is still clearly getting weaker than before, and once it's all the way up I put on some more electronic music again as a backdrop to the reading I'm still doing.
I could continue copying the notes from the bath, but honestly all I really did was listen to a bunch of songs and read more for most of it, so I'll skip ahead to T+9:15. I had recently finished reading and then started reviewing the notes from the day's experience so that I and we could form better lasting memories of it all, and as I was doing so I started thinking about how much time had really passed for the first time in all of this experience, which, at just over nine hours after dosing, is just barely faster than we first had that thought on DOB, about ten hours after dosing, which is considerably longer than it is with most indole psychedelics. I was getting hungry again at this point and thinking about ordering some dinner, but this time decided to fully get out of the bath before doing so.
T+9:28 - I'm dressed and back out in the living room now, and Omicron comes back out to feed the cats again. Afterwards I end up looking at forum posts online and start working on some while also putting on the American Dad! episode Rabbit Ears in the background. The episode finished before I was done working on my post, which I finished reviewing and then submitted at T+10:16, and afterwards Iota came out and we decided to order dinner together.
T+10:24 - Even though the high has considerably lessened now, I do note that while pacing around thinking to myself about things, I still have that non-pushy but focused sense of psychedelic energy some of the incomplete but large and detailed geometric imagery occasionally flashing by in the mind's eye, both in a way that remind me especially of DOB, so I know I'm clearly still on something and even still tripping specifically even if the effects are quite light in some ways compared to other psychedelics. At T+10:30 I also note that there is still a slight but measurable MDMA-like feeling going that the DOx drugs don't have for me that I can recall for the record.
For the next hour, I am mostly just lost in thought or conversing internally with the others while TV episodes play in the background and we wait for dinner. There seems to be some agreement among us that the effects are reminiscent of DOB, which isn't too surprising given its molecular structure, and also certain bulkier base tryptamines like MPT and MALT in some ways related to how it was reminding me of 4-substituted tryptamines earlier, in part because of how it was like that but also more visually detailed in some ways like their base tryptamine counterparts. We also found it more grounded overall like the base tryptamines, and less like the 4-substituted tryptamines.
T+11:20 - Our taco dinner arrives at this point, and we also get a response to a forum post. The food is damn good from what I can recall, but we're too distracted to really focus much on it as we're busy responding to the post and getting a bit emotional about it. This ended up being a very engaging and somewhat anxious conversation that sucked our attention in for a bit and pulled focus away from the lingering trip effects and also mixed with the trailing dissociation to make me and us feel kind of cloudy and fatigued, and it took a long time to finish. I did note we still had a flash of mental geometry at T+12:26, but aside from that our next note was at T+14:51 when that conversation finally finished up, and I was feeling dazed and still high but less so. Very much wanting to relax, I got in the bath again at T+15:17.
T+16:17 - I listening to calming music and then got out exactly an hour later, not really wanting to stay in there too long but just having wanted to calm down a bit, and then ate another bowl of cereal at T+16:30 to bring things full circle after getting back out in the rest of the house.
T+16:45 - I can tell the high is still going because I was trying to message a friend and still felt dreamy and tingly while lying on the couch, and I just wasn't able to keep a thought together, so I eventually gave up on the message and went to bed at T+17:15.
I could continue writing a bit more about this experience, but that's really where the important notes end. We ended up getting about seven hours of peaceful sleep with good dreams, which was actually a very nice improvement as we had been having a lot of nightmares leading up to this. When we woke up we still did feel just barely high, but not like there were really still any lingering trippy or rolly effects going, just a still very slightly trailing body buzz. It seems like we finally felt a complete or near complete drop off between twenty-four and twenty-five hours after dosing, which is again consistent with what we noticed in our past experiences with lower dosages. This following day definitely felt like something of a "recovery day" as we would have referred to it in past MDMA experiences and that we've actually felt a bit with 4C-D already with lower dosages, we were slow and tired and a little snotty and just generally more worn out than we usually are after psychedelics, but it was nothing truly uncomfortable and we enjoyed just taking the day easy and resting up.
On top of the recovery day feeling, we did also have a nice psychedelic afterglow too which really helped to balance things out, we were in a very positive mood in general and also very glad to have gotten to trip and get high again specifically after that break period we had been on. Additionally, while the recovery day feeling really only lasted that next day, the afterglow lasted many days and really kept us feeling happy and glowy all throughout the next week, which is something we had been wondering about with 4C-D and were happy to see materialize. However, it's worth noting that while these lingering effects did help quite a lot with our mood as well as some dissociative symptoms we had been dealing with, the anti-addictive effect we were looking for definitely did not occur
the anti-addictive effect we were looking for definitely did not occur
, and in fact we were fiending for highs of all types over the next few days after this experience! Though we didn't actually take anything else at the time, little did we know how much we would be back to be using things not that much later, but it was an interesting experiment at the time.
Overall, I really like 4C-D so far, but it's a very unique drug from the others we've taken so far, while at the same time being quite recognizable. We have seen scientific papers from decades ago saying that in lab animals 4C-D substitutes for both MDMA and LSD, and I can honestly believe it now because it does seem to be sort of a hybrid of a classical, though phenethylamine-style psychedelic experience and an empathogen experience, though not quite exactly either but very familiar in the ways it's like both. The empathogenic effect does feel particularly like MDMA to us and of course Omicron in particularly really enjoyed that, and I enjoyed trading the experience out with her like we feel we did with MDMA back in the day as well, but given that we have not taken any other empathogens knowingly such as the benzofurans or anything like that, I would caution against taking our word too much that it's THAT much like MDMA compared to other empathogens, 4C-D definitely reminds us of MDMA but there are differences and some of those are probably closer, but this is definitely in the same area for us. As for its psychedelic effects, I was glad to be able to see them develop somewhat more completely this time around after getting so many good hints and signs from past experiences, and would say that overall I find them most similar to the DOx family from which 4C-D is directly derived. However, there are clear differences between them just as there are between the DOx and 2C-x families and between 4C-D and the 2C-x family, and I wouldn't say it would be wise to take 4C-D expecting an experience alike one of the more powerfully psychedelic DOx drugs like DOC or DOB, but knowing how those molecules work will definitely provide some insight in understanding how to work with 4C-D as well.
That's all we've got to say for now though so we hope you found it educational or entertaining and be safe if you choose to experiment with this one as well!
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