Do you know about
It's an Erowid project that does lab drug testing of anonymously
submitted samples & publishes the results online. [See Recent Results]
Series of TFMPP & BZP Experiments
Citation:   zed ericksson. "Series of TFMPP & BZP Experiments: An Experience with TFMPP, BZP & 5-HTP (exp12698)". Jun 19, 2002.

  oral BZP
    oral TFMPP
I've recently completed a series of experiments with the TFMPP/BZP combination, which has gained notoriety in certain Internet drug communities lately as a cheap and legal alternative to MDMA.

Having never done MDMA, I cannot myself accurately gauge how like or unlike to MDMA it truly is; however, in discussions with a close friend of mine who -has- done MDMA, he indicated that the feelings and emotions I described were much like that well-loved drug.

Over the course of these experiments, I discovered several things one should take stock of if planning to try this combination.

1) Redosing is a mistake. Period. It is a great temptation as one is coming down and pining for the euphoria of hours past, but it simply does not work.

I've made the mistake of redosing a handful of times, and my experiences were sufficient to dissuade me from trying again. The first time rendered me violently ill, and I was left to spend the remainder of the otherwise-gorgeous day crouched before the toilet.

The second time, the euphoric effects of TFMPP fled me entirely, and I was left languishing alone in the speedy realm of BZP for hours at a time. Normally fun, but not what I was looking for at the time.

2) Take the drugs on a full stomach. I mean it. It will drastically reduce the somatic distress that will surely result from 100-200mg (or more) of raw chemical hitting your stomach.

In addition, your will and ability to consume food are reduced by these psychoactive piperazines, and you will want to dance or jump or go for a walk while you're on them. Having energy to go on will diminish the next day's hangover.

3) I tried dosages of BZP and TFMPP ranging from 50-100mg each. (At dosages lower than 50mg, I conjecture the side effects will be stronger than the desired effects.) 100mg BZP to 50mg TFMPP (keeping the 2:1 ratio some of you might remember from the literature) was my favorite, but 50mg BZP to 50mg TFMPP provided a delightful light roll.

My advice is this: Don't let the total combined weight exceed your maximum tolerable BZP dose. For example, if 200mg of BZP is uncomfortable for you, don't try to mix 100mg BZP with 100mg TFMPP. BZP doses are much easier to determine, so finding your upper limit on BZP alone is a good first step.

Also, do not let your TFMPP exceed your BZP. I can propose no mechanism to explain it, but every time I did so, I became ill. TFMPP without BZP does nothing of note. Don't waste your drug.

I have a hunch that piperazine doses are at least somewhat weight-dependant. When doing BZP alone, my friend prefers 200mg each time. I can barely handle such a dose, far preferring 100mg. Don't rely on your friend Bob or Internet experience reports for dosages. As with other drugs, start low and work your way up.

4) If you're working from pure powder, as most probably will be, pack your capsules properly. This means: Get a milligram scale. Eyeballing is not acceptable. (There -are- cheap scales available that are good to 2mg, which is close enough for these purposes.)

It's a good idea to prepare caps in advance of the planned dose. Weighing out powder and carefully pouring it into caps is a stressful experience, and the smell of the powder is likely to add to any somatic distress you might feel.

5) Side effects of TFMPP/BZP include somatic distress, loss of appetite, dry mouth, frequent urination, increased sweating, body temperature fluctuations, and increased pulse.

The dry mouth poses the biggest danger to the majority of piperazine users. As the piperazine experience wears on, frequent urination will set in as your body tries to dispose of all the excess liquid you dump in to offset the dry mouth. If this situation continues unabated, it can lead to hyponatremia, the condition that has already been noted to have claimed the lives of several MDMA users.

The solution to this problem is to keep the sodium concentration of the blood at an acceptable level by drinking isotonic beverages (like Gatorade) or merely by consuming table salt with your water.

6) As with MDMA, preloading with 5-HTP is a good idea. It will prevent the effects of the TFMPP from tapering off prematurely. In addition, popping a single 5-HTP capsule regularly during the trip will help to boost said effects. Finally, taking two before bed will help you get to sleep, and take some edge of the dreaded hangover.

7) Yes, you -will- have some hangover. If you do everything right, it will be nothing more than a slight headache; but dosing too high, redosing, drinking too much water, or going for days without food is guaranteed to leave you unable to crawl out of bed for a couple days.

I know from experience.

Exp Year: 2002ExpID: 12698
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: Not Given
Published: Jun 19, 2002Views: 58,492
[ View PDF (to print) ] [ View LaTeX (for geeks) ] [ Swap Dark/Light ]
TFMPP (100), BZP (101), Tryptophan - 5-HTP (196) : Retrospective / Summary (11), Not Applicable (38)

COPYRIGHTS: All reports copyright Erowid.
No AI Training use allowed without written permission.
TERMS OF USE: By accessing this page, you agree not to download, analyze, distill, reuse, digest, or feed into any AI-type system the report data without first contacting Erowid Center and receiving written permission.

Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the authors who submit them. Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.

Experience Vaults Index Full List of Substances Search Submit Report User Settings About Main Psychoactive Vaults