Citation: GreyWizard. "Revisiting Psychedelics: An Experience with 5-MeO-AMT & Venlafaxine (Effexor) (exp33744)". Erowid.org. Mar 31, 2005. erowid.org/exp/33744
I suspect this will read more like a book than a short synopsis. As I write these first paragraphs, I am pre-experience and thought it best to commit my pre-thoughts to paper before I move forward.
About me: I am 46 years old, married and have two kids. The last time I had any experience was psychedelics was 28 years ago. That last trip was my first truly “:BAD” trip. The chemical was LSD and unlike the time I dropped acid and decided to go drive my dirt bike off road though densely wooded forests only to get lost and stuck in the mud, there was no “reason” for this last trip to be a bad one. I don’t remember much of my earlier psychedelic experiences. I do remember wondering if my last experience would really be the last time I ever experimented with psychedelics.
I am currently suffering from depression and likely have been all of my life. I take Effexor 300 mg at bedtime and have been for a year now. Prior to this last round with Effexor, I had decided I was not depressed anymore and was off antidepressants for 6 months. That was a disaster. Prior to that, I was on Effexor for several years. I am an intelligent person. I am a thinker, a ponderer. Throughout my life there have only been a few times that I have had a feeling of well being; that all is ok and going to stay that way. Interestingly the two longest periods in my life where I felt that way were: When I was sixteen and figured out that the HUGE vat of capsules (there were hundreds of them) that my mom kept in the kitchen cabinet were Dexedrine caps. (My mom was a chronic dieter). I stole the whole jar and ate them over a period of months. Those were some of the most content months of my life. Later on when Fen-Phen was available, I was on that regimen for nearly a year and once again I was happy. When I described this phenomenon to my shrink she told me she thought my depression is more likely nor-epinephrine and dopamine related than serotonin. Thus her reasoning to prescribe Effexor and Dexedrine. I have wondered for months now why the Dexedrine does not have the effect it had when I was in my teens when I take it with the Effexor. What I do know is that although I am better on the meds than without, I am still not happy.
(A few hours later: Not sure why I decided to write the above paragraph, but I will leave it in)
Some things that I do know: I am not looking for a resolution to my depression through psychedelics. I am not looking for a way to tune out of day-to-day life through psychedelics. Alcohol and other drugs such as Cannabis work much better for that. I do know that I do not understand life. I do know that I do not understand why we are here and why I am here. I do know that I do not know who I am. I know that I yearn to understand these things. And one thing I did learn from my earlier use of psychedelics is that they do offer a chance to glean the answer to some of these questions.
I had thought for quite some number of years that even if I wanted to I would never be able to experiment with these chemicals again because they were illegal. Then one night I was surfing the web and happened to come across information about psychedelics. I was in equal parts shocked, amazed and ecstatic. I had been under the impression for over a quarter of a century that Big Brother had effected outlawed my access to these substances. I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am that I was wrong!!
I spent the last few weeks researching. The chemical I have chosen for my first re-entry into my mind is 5-meo-amt. I ordered some from an on-line source. I have more than a little trepidation in ordering this way as I wonder what recourse any of us would have if the 99.9% pure chemical (according to the labeling) that reached our house was in fact 99.9% crap?!? Life however is full of risks. I did as much research as I could to determine who I would order from and placed my order.
It arrived yesterday (Friday). I must take a minute to make an observation here. Since the vial I received stated that the substance was 99.9% 5-meo-amt, I would assume that anyone ordering 500mg of the substance would receive a vial of the same volume of powder that I did. If that is the case it is my opinion that anyone reading these trip reports should IMMEDIATELY discount reports from ANYONE who claims to have “eyeballed” their dose. I will explain why.
Having never ordered a chemical like this before, I had no idea what volume the 500 mg of powder would be. I knew from reading the experience vaults that it would be small. I had no idea how small! I gave some thought to how I would subdivide the 5-meo when it arrived. What I did was I brought home four syringes of 4 different sizes. 4-10cc's 4-5cc's and 4-3cc’s. When I opened the vial I was amazed to see that the 3’s were damn near too big. First I donned a pair of latex gloves. I did not want any of the powder to get on my skin. I then poured all of the powder into a 3cc syringe. I put a screw on cap on the end of the syringe so the powder would not come out the tip. The entire contents of the vial came out to 1.6mls of powder. I tapped and tapped and tapped the syringe to make sure that the contents settled to get an accurate measurement. Then just to ensure that I was getting an accurate measurement, I split the powder between two syringes to be sure that each measured the expected. 8ml. They did. I then poured all the contents of one syringe and half of the contents of the other back into the vial. I was left with .4cc of powder. I estimate that with a margin of error of less than ten percent I had 125mg in the syringe. I would have liked to subdivide the dose even more but I felt that as I did so, the margin of error would increase significantly. 1cc syringes might have been more accurate, but even so, after reading how much disaster a small increase/error in dose could bring on, I wanted to be prudent.
(Now if 125mg comes to .4cc of volume and an average dose is in the 5-10mg range, that means that someone would have to eyeball dividing .4cc of powder into 12, 15 or even 25 doses of even size. NO ONE HAS THAT KIND OF EYE!!)
I then attached the 3cc syringe with the .4cc of 5-meo-amt powders to a 3-way stopcock. (For those who are not medically inclined, you can find pictures of a 3-way and a description of its uses and function all over the net by doing a search) With the 3cc syringe of the chemical attached to one port of the stopcock, I attached another 3cc syringe filled with 2cc of Everclear (190 proof) to the other port. I injected the alcohol into the syringe with the 5-meo and then washed back and forth until the chemical went into solution. (By washing I mean that I pushed to contents of the full syringe back into the empty one back and forth about 30 times. The stopcock ensures that the solution goes nowhere except back and forth between the two syringes). I then filled a 60cc syringe with 48cc of Everclear. I removed one of the 3cc syringes and attached the 60cc syringe to that port. I pushed the contents of the 3cc syringe containing the 2cc solution of 5meo/Everlear into the 60cc syringe and carefully washed back and forth about 30 times. I then removed the empty 3cc syringe from the stopcock and attached an empty 60cc syringe. I washed the 60cc 5-meo/Everclear solution back and forth about 30 times to ensure that the 5-meo was in fact in solution. I then removed the empty 50cc syringe making sure the stopcock was closed to the full syringe.
So, at this point I had a solution of 125mg of 5-meo-amt in 50cc of alcohol. This came out to 5mg per 2cc.
Well it is now 7:30 Saturday morning. T= -30 minutes. Yes, I am going to start a trip at 8am. I AM an old fart, aren’t I?? ;o) I screwed up and didn’t take my Effexor last night at bedtime so I had to take it at 5am. Anyone that takes Effexor knows that only a lunatic knowingly skips a dose and that a smart man does not walk but rather runs to the medicine cabinet as soon as he realized he missed the dose!!
So I must list two drugs for my trip:
Effexor XR 300mg taken at T= -2:00
5-meo-amt 5mg taken at T= 0:00
I weigh 310 pounds
Also of note is I have not taken Dexedrine for nearly a month now.
Also of note is that I usually take Trazadone 150mg for sleep, which I purposely did NOT take last night.
Last food was about 8pm T= -10:00 a heavy dinner and 10pm T= -8:00, some ice cream.
And a handful of peanuts at 7am T= -1:00.
I do not know if I will be home during my experience and if I will want or be able to jot down my experience in real time (I would like to, but we will see…) I will let you know if the subsequent report is real time or a recollection…PEACE!
BTW, Time references are all in Hrs:Mins. T- for pre-taking the chemical and T+ for after ingesting it.
A quick note here at
T= +00:01 -- I can’t believe I did it!! There is an element of fear--”What the hell did I just do??”” as well as an element of wonder.. Wow I did it!!!! More will be revealed.
T= +00:45 --No effects. My stomach seems to be feeling something, but at my age, and in light of my dinner and dessert choices, I don’t know that I can attribute this to anything more that a case of over indulging the night before. I must admit that the idea of eating something for breakfast doesn’t appeal to me at all as it usually does REGARDLESS of how my stomach feels. I took a look at my pupils in the bathroom mirror they are normal size.
T= +1:10 --WOW!.. If you exclude alcohol consumption related incidents, I have not vomited like I just did since…..Well I don’t think I have ever vomited like that when alcohol wasn’t involved! So, it was not a case of overdoing it last night was it?
T= +1:30 Thank God for Pepto!! The nausea is still there but it is well well within the manageable range. I seem to have the feeling that it is possible that something may possibly be happening. But it is as vague as the preceding sentence. My ten year old son wants me to drive him to his friends yard sale. He knew I had just been barfing, so his suggestion was that his sister drive (I would have to come along as his sister only has a learner’s permit) and we could take one of the small bathroom garbage pails with us so I had a “puke bucket” in case I get sick. One thing to note. My appetite is gone… I get the feeling that whatever else may or may not come in the next 24 hours, it is going to be quite some time until my appetite shows back up again.
While I am writing this I am watching a BIG squirrel watching me through the living room window. I getting the sense that I am able to see more of this fella than I might otherwise see. But again it is a vague sensation.
T=+1:45 I have never before taken such notice of the structure of a squirrel's feet….Interesting. I know some of you may be laughing now saying, “Um.. Yeah..right…, But you don’t think it’s the chemical!!??!!??….. Yet I cannot go beyond the word vague. Extremely vague to characterize any change. I am going to go take a gander at my pupils.
T= +4:50 I have just returned from getting a haircut and shopping for clothes with/for my daughter. The nausea has been ever present in the background. The past three hours have been interesting.
At about T= +3:20 I went to Supercuts to get a haircut. There is a haircutter there who is nice and quite cute. I had to use the restroom before my haircut. The walls in the bathroom were painted white with a blue and red paint swirled over the white. As I sat on the throne and looked at the wall, the colors began to move. I know that reds and blues can cause that effect, but not to that extent…. The haircut was more sensual than usual though I still question if my level or awareness is heightened because of the chemical or because I expect it to be because I took the chemical. At best it is vague. I stopped at a drug store to get an anti-emetic agent (anti-barfing) and was surprised when I got home to find out that the only “drug” the pharmacist had to offer other than pepto was Emetrol. I laughed as I read the ingredients. When I was young and my mom or dad got a bad stomach, we would be sent to the corner Candy Store to get some Coke syrup. My dad actually preferred Cherry Soda syrup over coke syrup! Well if I have any Emetrol left over I can always add a dash to some seltzer for an old fashioned cherry soda!!
T= +4:40. I am displeased thus far with what has transpired. In looking through both Dr. Shulgins writings as well as the experience vaults, I believe that I should have had some effect by now. So I have decided to add another 5.0mg to the mix. Will describe the results as I can!
T= +5:00. Dosed with another 2cc of my 2.5mg/cc solution. This time I drank a 16 ounce glass of water immediately afterwards. I will drink another 16 ounces slowly over the next 15 minutes.
**A note about driving. I drove when we went to get our haircuts and for the return trip. [Erowid Note:
Driving while intoxicated, tripping, or extremely sleep deprived is dangerous and irresponsible because it endangers other people. Don't do it!]
Since she is a teenager, my daughter ALWAYS complains about my driving. There were however a couple of incidents where I think she was right. Once I was slow to react to a parked car as I was maneuvering our van out of a parking spot. And once on the road she felt that I was moving too fast toward a tow truck that had turned in front of us. Though I wouldn’t disagree if any of those reading this are already calling me an idiot for driving at all after ingesting this chemical, I can assure you that I will not drive from this point hence.
From this point forward my time references will be
T = +hr:min (hr:min) The first time reference will be post dose #1 while the second time reference (the one within the parentheses) will be post dose #2.
As far as the accuracy of my doses: IF what I have read is in fact true; that 5-meo-amt will go into solution in Everclear AND that making such a solution will not break down the chemical or make it less bio-available, then I am EXTREMELY sure that my dosage is accurate to within +/- 10%. If this second dosing does not work I am left with three possibilities:
1. The dose is too low for me
2. The drug will not work for me
3. The Effexor I am taking is mitigating the effect the chemical is having.
From T= +5:20(0:20) for about 40 minutes I laid in bed on my right side (I remembered my anatomy classes!! Stomach empties to the right so lying face down allows gravity to help the stomach empty) I loved the feeling. Very earthy. Teeth a bit chattery and this is definitely not from feeling cold. Also a bit of jaw clenching, but far better than how I am, for at least a week, when I go back on Dexedrine. The nausea from dose two was nothing like dose one. Whether I have Pepto, Emetrol or the 32 ounces of water I drank to thank I don’t know. At approximately 30 minutes into dose #2 I noticed a slight change in my perceptions of things with my eyes opened. With eyes closed I sensed some patterns that I had never noticed before.
T= +6:20 (1:20) This is the first moment that I get the sense that something is happening. IT is not vague. I am altered. Definitely not at all like LSD, that’s for sure. Definitely not at all like mescaline or mushrooms. Of course I am going from 25 or more year old memories. I can definitely see where folks talk about a sexual component to this chemical. I feel like I want to connect, touch and get naked. The nausea component of this drug is quite unfortunate. This is a definite “Us” feeling rather than a “Me” feeling. It seems like it would be great to go out dancing or dining with friends. I am going to call a friend of mine from my childhood that I have kept in touch with these many years. I suspect it will be a long chat!! Then I am going to lay down next to my wife and hold her. Probably not in that order though ;o). Peace!
T= +6:40 (1:40) I am still sitting here staring at the computer screen. Been doing so for 20 minutes! With just a little concentration I can make the words I see move. I can dissociate the sentences into a jumbles of words and then just as easily reassemble them into sentences again.. All by looking at them. My computer monitor is NOT a LCD, but it is nevertheless quite liquidy!
T= +15:30 (10:30) Well that was interesting. All of my entries from T= +00:01 through the last time entry above were all in real time. That is to say that I related all of the above events as they were happening. I am having a bit of trouble typing so I will have to do a retrospective of my experience in the morning (assuming I can remember!) So this will be my last “real time” entry…Will try my best to recount the last 9 hours tomorrow! Peace….
I must apologize to those who read through this long account only to find the following brief summary:
The 9 missing hours above were spent mostly waiting for the full effect of this chemical to come on. It never did happen. At its peak (around T= + 9:00 (4:00) I saw some interesting effects and must admit that it was interesting watching other cars on the road as my daughter drove us home from a short trip to the mountains. I did get to talk to my childhood friend, but I did not find the conversation flowing or worthy of prolonged description.
The sexual effect of this chemical was interesting in that not only did it allow me to achieve erection and orgasm easily, it also allowed me to become erect again in minutes which shocked the hell out of me and the Mrs!! However a good bowl of Cannabis would have yielded similar sexual enhancement (Damn I miss smoking pot. Haven’t done so in 10 years)
The gastrointestinal effects of this chemical were a source of irritation. I have a cast iron constitution and though I did vomit early on, I was able to ignore the effects for the most part by hour 3. But that is not the point. I would rather there not be a GI effect to ignore.
There were some OEVs (I think I got that right) and minimal minimal CEVs. I dod get the feeling that dose was an issue and I do fully intend to revisit this substance at a higher dose. I will do so only after I investigate some way avoiding the emetic effect. I also need to look into what effect taking Effexor may have had on my experience.
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