4-HO-DiPT, 2C-E, Lamotrigine, Diphenhydramine, Amlodipine/Benazepril (Lotrel), Ibuprofen, Caffeine & Nicotine
Citation: RedRabbit. "The Sun Shines In, I Have Awoken: An Experience with 4-HO-DiPT, 2C-E, Lamotrigine, Diphenhydramine, Amlodipine/Benazepril (Lotrel), Ibuprofen, Caffeine & Nicotine (ID 35093)". Erowid.org. Mar 11, 2005. erowid.org/exp/35093
Looking back on this experience, it was definitely the most powerful trip I have ever had, and I have had a couple dozen in my life. The combination of the 2C-E and the 4-HO-DiPT definitely produced something like 2 different trips in one. The peak of the 4-HO-DiPT lasted just about 2 hours, and in comparison to any other psychedelic drug, has a very quick onset, come-up, and come down. Yet, at least at the dose I took, was very powerful. One might wonder how I could differentiate between the effects of the 2C-E and the DiPT. This is a good question, and to some extent I can not totally. However, this is my fourth experience with 2C-E, (second time at this dose), and my second experience with the DiPT. It was also my second experience combining the two drugs. I desperately wanted to keep a log on this trip of what was happening, of what I was experiencing during this trip, but a couple hours into the trip, I basically gave up. It was very difficult to type.
This was not the whole problem though. I could still type very slowly, with some concerted effort. The real problem seemed to be the will of the trip, the urge to just experience the trip and just be was overwhelming. Forcing my self to concentrate on typing would have been contrary to the very essence of the trip. It was as if instead of me tripping, I became the trip. I’ll try to explain this further in a bit. First let me give you word for word what I was able/willing to write during this period. Some specfics about the setting and mind set.
“T+ 0:00 Dose time 1:35 PM. Approx 30mg 2C-E, 50mg 4-HO-DiPT. Going to take a shower.
T+ 0:30 Something is definitely coming on, not something but the 4-HO-DiPT of course.
(went a smoked a cig)
T+ 0:45 I am tripping. Visuals coming on. Body warm, pulse quickening. (~120) Thoughts becoming disconnected, different, (slower?). I don’t know. Maybe just me trying to make sense of the change in my senses. Can’t observe and experience at the same time, can I? Unsure of my own thoughts.
Thinking about how we round off time, as here (T+ 0:45 instead of T+0:44). What’s the difference right? A minute can be long time though. Especially if it was your last. Deep thoughts no doubt.
Trip is still coming on stronger. It’s hard to type, well.
Do I shut my windows, or leave them open.? Music, or no music? Just sit and be? Questions, not answers.
T+ 0:57 slight tremors in body, very slight. Also very slight stomach thing. Niether a big deal. I have no plan for my trip today. Just go with the flow. My walls becoming moving fractals on the surface.
Urge to just sit back and experience the trip. Patterns real. Perspectives, subsidiary. Senses amplified. Don’t want to type for a ...while? How long is that?
2:44 PM its going to be long day. Heavy trails. Happy trails. Make joke, or don’t make a joke. That is The Joke.
This is definitely a heavy trip. Drifting off into my thoughts. Too hard to type them.
You either get the joke, or you don’t get it. TYPE SO HARD TO DO!
4:15 PM. Been somewhere on the DiPT, VERY FAR AWAY, and now back to the what.... just plain trip of the 2C-E
7:25 PM. Wholy Jesus, is this strong????!”
Setting / Mind Set
I am 34.868 yrs old, male, single, computer sci grad student. I have been moderately depressed for the past few months. I have a history of depression through out my life going back to high school. I was just this year diagnosed with bipolar type II disorder, hence the Lamictal which I have been on for a month now. Nothing miraculous to say about the Lamictal so far, but then I have just worked my way up to 100mg, which is usually the minimum therpeutic dose. My last trip, 30mg of 2C-E was over 2 months ago. My doses of both the 2C-E and the 4-HO-DiPT here are extremely heavy, especially the DiPT. I wouldn’t recommend anyone doing these drugs for the first time starting out at this level. Whether I am just able to handle these doses, or just require higher doses for the desired effect, I am not sure, maybe a little of both. I had a headache that morning so I took 600mg of Ibuprofen (Advil), a short while before dosing. I also took my Lamictal 100mgs, 5/10 Lotrel (a combination of ACE inhibitor and calcium channel blocker) for high blood pressure, and 50mg Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) to help relax about a half hour before dosing.
My mind set for this trip as it is for most of them is part recreational and part self exploration. Really I find the self exploration to be recreational for me. But also I felt a need to just escape this dreary depression for a day. My roomate has gone for the week, so I have the house to myself. I have been kind of planning this, contemplating it at least, for a while. I had nothing particular I had to do for the day, and figured it was as good as any day to do it. I took the dose of 2C-E and the DiPT in one gelcap on an empty stomach, (except for a couple cups of coffee with lots of cream and sugar). Generally I don’t recommend tripping on an empty stomach, but I just wasn’t hungry.
Summary of experience / retrospective
The 4-HO-DiPT hit my very hard and fast. I can say that it was the 4-HO-DiPT because for one it generally takes me a couple hours to really feel like I am tripping on 2C-E, and here I was seriously tripping after only 45 minutes. At some point early on in my DiPT trip, I made a cup of coffee. This was no easy task. I kept forgetting what I was doing while making it. As I was coming back up to my room with my coffee, I remember having a visual image of my trip in my mind. My trip, and every moment in that trip, was like part of a bigger trip, which was in turn part of yet another bigger trip, and so on and so on, on into infinity, which somehow all came back to that very moment. Everything was one, everthing leads back to itself. The image in my mind was like this 3 dimmensional coral-like network which was itself the trip, which was constanly mutating in shape, yet it was always still just the same thing. Like a rubber band, you can stretch it, twist it, rotate it, tie it in knots, but the ultimate substance and topology of the rubber band remains constant. A very crude visual metaphor would be something like this:
Trip Trip Trip Trip Trip Trip Trip
Trip Trip Trip Trip Trip
Trip Trip Trip Trip Trip
Trip Trip Trip Trip
Now picture that each of the letters above is made of the word “Trip” and so on and so on. Again this is just a crude visualization. In my mind it was 3 dimmensional and liquid or plasma like constantly changing shape. Even my own recollection of the object in my mind I’m sure is only a crude memory of it. There was during the DiPT part of this trip lots of infinite thoughts like this, that all somehow lead back to the beginning of the thought, and the current moment or initial spark of thought. It is impossible to really describe with words, and I can only vaguely recollect these things conceptually now that I am not in the trip any more. At the time they were very real, and made as much sense as anything in “real” life does. I felt like I was understanding the nature of things, the nature of existence. It all seemed so obvious. Why can’t I see these things now that the trip is over? You can see in my writing at the time, that I made a little joke to my self “...Heavy Trails, Happy Trails...”. I wrote heavy trails because I was experiencing heavy trails in my vision, and then I though happy trails, the joke here is just a simple word play, happy trails meaning both the visual trails, and the expression “Happy Trails [to you]”. I think its also some line in an old western country song. I was trying to decide whether to actually type this thought, was it funny?
And then I began thinking about the general decision to tell a joke or not to tell a joke? And for some reason, (that I can not recall now), I thought this is really “The Joke”, as in if the Universe had a joke to make, it was the very fact that we can choose to make a joke or not make a joke. Alhough this still falls short of the meaning, which was clear to me then, and not now, maybe because you can not express it in words, other than the riddle like statement. “Make joke, or don’t make a joke. That is The Joke.” Why I thought this I can’t not recall, it just came to me. It seemed important though, and it became this koan, a metaphysical riddle that I thought about for some time later on my ‘2C-E trip’. What does it mean, why is this “The Joke”, its meaning would fade in and out of my mind. It seemed “right”, and yet I can not express it. It does have a self referential quality, which is typical of a trippy thought in my experience. There is also the obvious similarity of Shakspeare's “To be or not to be? That is the question.” Both are somehow related. You either are, or you are not. You get a joke or you don’t. You tell a joke or you do not. The Universe in itself, the whole of it, in it’s decision to be, was like a decision to tell a joke. The Universe is a joke, and you get it or you do not. While I was tripping, I got it, but now once again I do not.
While I was peaking very heavily on the DiPT, I was trying to decide what to do with my self. But every time I proposed some activity to my self, play some music? I would only become lost in my thoughts and find my self posing more questions. At one point I did finally decide to play some music. I put on Black Sabbath’s “Fluff”. I guess it was somehow soothing, it seemed to just go on and on also. And after the 4 minutes and 9 seconds that the song lasted, it felt like I had been listening to it for so long that I had litened to enough music for a life time. After that I decided to just sit and be.
I sat in my room just listening to the sounds of outside my windows. There was this stray cat in the yard outside. It just kept howling like it was starving for food. I heard neighbors yelling at it, “Go on, get out of here!” I felt for it. It was alone in the world, and hungry, possibly thirsty as well. I would have liked to have done something for it. But I was too leery about going outside and possibly having to interact with my neighbors, who I felt would obviously know I was not in my “right mind”. It continued its intermittant cries thorough out much of the afternoon. I heard crows cawing nearby as well. I thought perhaps they sense the cat being near its end, and now patiently waited for what would become a nice meal. This was just nature. Something that happens every day, I just don’t take notice. I felt so much pity for the cat. And yet I can’t go taking in every stray cat that passes though. We already have a cat that we have to have put down, because it won’t stop peeing on furniture and clothes. It all seems so cruel, but it is just the way of things, is it not? If I was better person maybe I would have done something for it. What is one cat in the grand scheme of things, what is one person in the grand scheme? I thought about the fly caught in the spiders web. I thought about a nursery rhyme my niece recently told me.
I spent most of the day in my room, mostly lying on my bed just listening to world going on outside. The birds, traffic, the howling cat. Sounds would flow though my body like waves. The sounds weren't like some external thing that I heard and simply observed. They merged with me, I was what my senses preceived. I was one with them. It was like I could not possibly exists without the world, and in a way the world did not exist without me. The experience of being is all that there was. There was nothing to do about them. I was completely free from the concerns of daily life. Nothing really mattered. The Universe just was, and nothing more. There was nothing to be understood about it. Because underneath it all there is nothing. Without the Universe there would be nothing. This is the paradox, The Joke, the Universe is really nothing, the question is the answer, the beginning is the ending, All is One, nothing is Everything, understanding is not understanding. What does all this mean? It means nothing. There is no meaning, that is The Meaning. I just wonder why these things are so clear when I am tripping? And though I can express the words now, I can not see them. It is almost like once we find truth, we must forget about it and start searching for it again.
“The closer you get to the meaining, the sooner you know that your dreaming.”
-“Heaven and Hell”, Ronnie James Dio
“Chill and numbs from head to toe
Icy sun with frosty glow
Why'd you go reaching your sorrow?
Why'd you go read no tomorrow
Now from darkness, there springs light
Wall of Sleep is cold and bright
Wall of Sleep is lying broken
Sun shines in, you are awoken”
-“Behind the Wall of Sleep”, Ozzie Osbourne
I don’t know what else to say really. This is just what I have found in my trips along this Great Trip of life. It seems like the heavy the dose, the more profound and clear these truths become. And yet I have no clue what it all means. Somehow that seems to be exactly what there is to be known, nothing. But don’t take my words for it. You must find nothing in everything and everything in nothing for your self.
To tell a joke or not to tell a joke, that really is The Joke. Think about it.
By the way, I didn’t FULLY come down until 18 hours later when I was finally able to fall asleep the next day at 7:30 AM.
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