Piperazines (BZP & TFMPP?)
Citation:   Anonymous. "Discomfort: An Experience with Piperazines (BZP & TFMPP?) (exp42419)". Erowid.org. Nov 29, 2005. erowid.org/exp/42419

2 capsls oral Piperazines
Saw some 'p.e.p pills' described as a cheap, legal and therefore readily available alternative to ecstacy so I thought I might as well try them. The experience was not a pleasant one. Maybe I was a bit silly because I'd had a busy day, I was somewhat worn out and hadn't really eaten properly. But I was reasonably sensible, I had a bowl of soup before going out, and waited until I got into the club and saw how I felt before taking them. The manufacturers describe them as a 'piperazine blend' (I think mainly BZP), and following their advice I took two capsules, which I guess was about 4/500mg. This isn't as much as it sounds because there was lots of inactive stuff in there too, I really can't be sure how much of the chemical there was.

After I dropped them there was no real take off point, I suppose I first noticed something was a bit different maybe 1 or 1 1/2 hours in, but it was so mild and gradual. The effects in terms of perception/feeling etc. were virtually undetectable. What was detectable were the numerous side-effects, which made for a very uncomfortable couple of hours. Temperature fluctuating, generally felt uncomfortably hot, dry mouth but no appetite to drink (I forced myself to drink at a sensible rate), I felt shaky and fragile, and from time to time felt mildly nauseous. None of this was that bad but it was all enough to leave me feeling not quite right and distracted me the whole evening. Couldn't really do anything, dancing quickly became exhausting (and I got very hot) but now the stimulant effects were kicking in, not in a good MDMA-type way, I still felt tired but I couldn't relax.

After leaving the club and getting home where most importantly the temperature was mild and I could just sit around, things did improve somewhat. I can see what people mean by the 'speedy' effects, not that I've ever done speed, but it's a bit like having your head held up to keep you awake, slightly fixated, on-edge consciousness. As for MDMA-style euphoria, yes later on when all the adverse conditions had been overcome there was a trace effect, just enough to be frustrating, and it didn't compensate for the following hours of enforced awakeness. Oh yeah, and the slight 'glow' feeling in the chest, again, to a minute degree but more than offset by the aching limbs and general feeling of fragility. Again, the feelings faded gradually rather than a comedown, but I'd say I was feeling more-or-less back to normal after 7/8 hours.

Maybe if I had been more rested and had taken them on an empty stomach (again as the manufacturers, I think rather irresponsibly, suggest) things would have been better. But it would seem a bit odd that a modest meal half an hour beforehand should completely stifle all the positive effects but leave significant adverse side-effects. Similarly if I'd been more rested... Well perhaps that would have helped on all sides, but I wasn't exhausted, I'm sure MDMA would have had me up and dancing in no time. A stimulant that keeps me up but doesn't give me any energy or suppress the feelings of tiredness doesn't seem worth the bother to me. And my tiredness shouldn't have affected the euphoric effects, I'd probably have been quite happy sitting in the corner nodding along feeling mildly 'loved up' but rather I was feeling washed out.

So in conclusion, not a dreadful experience, but a mildly unpleasant one, piperazines seem to be just a waste of money. Perhaps I'll try again under 'optimal' conditions but I doubt it. As usual in the UK, the legal/herbal alternatives don't work or are no fun, and just because it's banned in the USA doesn't mean it must be good. Also I think there's a risk that a drug being legal means it's perceived as being without risk. Especially at higher doses it seems that pretty much the same advice as applies to MDMA should be applied (the manufacturers say to drink half a litre of water an hour) but this is presented as a 'drug harm minimisation solution'. The ridiculous media hysteria surrounding e does at least mean that people generally take care when they start using it, and generally have a safe and enjoyable experience. I've never had a bad experience on MDMA, not even the mild discomfort here, except in the first few minutes of coming up (although some friends have had unpleasant reactions). My basic message here is, don't use this because you can't get or are 'working up' to MDMA or something, it'll put you right off.

Exp Year: 2005ExpID: 42419
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: Not Given
Published: Nov 29, 2005Views: 49,106
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TFMPP (100), BZP (101), Piperazines (99) : Various (28), Difficult Experiences (5), General (1)

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