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Decidedly Subjective
Piperazines - BZP & TFMPP
by Sven
Citation:   Sven. "Decidedly Subjective: An Experience with Piperazines - BZP & TFMPP (exp76744)". Aug 8, 2009.

T+ 0:00
100 mg oral Piperazines - BZP (powder / crystals)
  T+ 0:00 50 mg oral Piperazines - TFMPP (powder / crystals)
  T+ 1:30 100 mg oral Piperazines - BZP (powder / crystals)
  T+ 1:30 25 mg oral Piperazines - TFMPP (powder / crystals)


Over the past few months I have taken BZP and TFMPP on 5 separate occasions, in varying doses. I am writing this report to try to give advice to any considering taking it – specifically in relation to doses and minimisation of side-effects.

General information: My supply of the stuff is in the form of powder purchased online from a supplier selling the substances for ‘research purposes only.’ Doses were measured with a digital scale accurate to +/- 5mg. Unless noted otherwise, no other drugs were taken. My motivation for using BZP+ TFMPP is that I was looking for a cheap, more legal and more trusted alternative to MDMA – which I have taken 3 times in the past (in powder form) and very much enjoyed, but worry about getting a criminal record, what cutting agents may have been used, and where my money is going.

I took the first dose at my friend and partner H’s house around 8.30pm. She doesn’t indulge in chemicals and so was staying sober, and choosing her as my experience buddy was based on this. From reading about BZP+TFMPP I was not expecting any reactions that I couldn’t handle, but thought it a good idea to have somebody sober to hand just in case, and also thought that the experience would be more enjoyable if there was somebody there to share it with. I saw this as an experimental first try, and my mindset was predominantly scientific. I was expecting to have to use the stuff a few times in different doses before hitting on the right proportion for me, and so while I was looking forward to spending time with H in an altered state of consciousness, this was not my primary motivation.

After taking the first dose, H and I chatted, hugged and generally hung out for about 90 minutes. At this point I had noticed some borderline effects, but nothing very significant. For this reason I took a second smaller dose. H and I then decided to walk down to the beach.

T+ 120 minutes was when I first noticed definite non-placebo effects. The effects came on gradually, starting off subtle, while H and I were still walking to the beach. I became very talkative similar to a good amphetamine high, and at T+ 130-140 noticed some definite euphoria, empathy as well as a bit of an urge to dance when we walked past a club playing music. We decided against going to the club, and continued towards the beach.

I found that the effects of the mixture were somewhere between amphetamine and MDMA. The effects most certainly have an edge of energy, empathy and euphoria that I associate with MDMA, but it is not as defined and sharp. Another effect was of feeling a great pleasure in touching and hugging, but with no sexual appeal whatsoever – the mixture literally made me completely uninterested in sex. The effects of the drug were decidedly subjective – influenced by what I was doing at the time. When talking about an emotional subject, or touching/cuddling, I would feel much more euphoric and empathic than when not touching, or talking about a less emotional subject. While MDMA makes me feel loving towards everyone around me, this mixture is more responsive of how I actually feel. So if I’m talking to somebody that I love or care for deeply (as with H) I get the deep loving feelings of MDMA, but otherwise I don’t. The drug most definitely stripped away any sense of worry or ego and allowed me to communicate freely without worrying about whether such communication is appropriate. It also mentally clarified me in the way that MDMA does, and allowed me to see insights into my and H’s relationship, and other subjects, that I would not have been able to otherwise

At around T+ 5 hours I started to feel the effects wane. At this stage H and I started to walk back to her house. I was still most definitely ‘high’ but in a more relaxed way. I was still sociable and talkative, but no longer had the energy that I had earlier in the trip. This also gave me the typical side-effects of the substance – dry mouth, jaw clenching and in my case also fiddling with my fingers. This lasted for another 2 hours or so, and my awakeness gradually declined while the side effects gradually increased. At about t+7hours 30 (4.30am) I tried to sleep, but despite being sleepy I felt to alert to sleep and could not do so. I believe I managed to get some sleep between 7 and 9am, but it is hard to judge whether I was actually able to sleep or how much.

The next day I felt extremely tired and washed out, and suffered from a decided lack of appetite. The tiredness was most definitely more than I would have expected from my activities alone, even when I took into account barely sleeping. I also found myself running back and forth to the toilet constantly throughout the day. The reason for this is that I had mis-interpreted some advice for BZP users that advised to drink a pint of water an hour. It should have read a maximum of a pint of water an hour – a pint an hour would have been sensible had I been at a club dancing, but was way too much for wandering and chatting. The BZP stopped me passing all this water until the next day. I believe that this contributed to the tiredness.

Future use included a mixture of different doses and settings, including at clubs and at home, and dosing alongside different people, some of whom were also taking. From varying the dose, my typical dose would be 250mg bzp and 75mg tfmpp. But I’m not all that likely to use it in the future as the side effects are too much. Side effects can be reduced by drinking some fluids, but not too much, and by taking 5htp 4-5 hours after the BZP, but I never managed to get rid of them completely and though with the 5htp I’d be able to sleep, I’d still usually feel quite drained the next day. I never quite recaptured the magic of the first time, partly due to different settings with different people, but possibly also due to it losing its magic. The complete lack of sexual appetite was very much a recurring feature though, and occurred even in sexual situations.

Exp Year: 2008ExpID: 76744
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: Not Given 
Published: Aug 8, 2009Views: 16,306
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TFMPP (100), BZP (101) : Small Group (2-9) (17), Hangover / Days After (46), Sex Discussion (14), Retrospective / Summary (11), Combinations (3), First Times (2), General (1)

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